Electric Conversion....I don’t get it!!

some interesting bedtime reading

The Idea That 'Green Technology' Can Help Save the Environment Is Dangerous - The Wire Science

Flossie said:

Ok, I've applied for a patent before any of you lot try and nick my cunning idea.
View attachment 227811one of these fitted to each wheel.
The faster you drive will actually increase your range.!
If you fit 2 to each wheel then you won't have to use a mains charger ever again probably!

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Ah. The good old dynamo. My friends bike had one built in to the rear hub, it worked well. Mine. That was like the one pictured, if I got to a steep hill I had to detach it !
Damned hard work sometimes and of course as you slowed the light got dimmer.
Whole heartedly agree with adrian. The 'ice' has been made a scapegoat as people see them everyday.
Emission's could be reduced by electrifying all trains, technology we have already and is under used.
Start with the big polluters

Nodge68 said:

This could be eliminated if salvaged motor and batteries are used, which is actually preferable to those items going to land fill, or being recycled in some way.

I can see a lot of sense in using salvaged electronic components to improve the performance, economy, reliability and enjoyment of something like an old VW bus, especially as those things are horrible to look after, and dreadfully unreliable too.

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I agree but battery life is approximately 5-10 years. Both extortionately expensive to replace and dispose of. As I say, I’m not opposed to electric, I just don’t feel that the infrastructure is in place, nor will be for the next 15-20 years. I think we should be looking at making the combustion engine as efficient as we can for the time being.

Landyfox said:

I agree but battery life is approximately 5-10 years.

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Where are you getting that information? Because it's inaccurate. A current EV battery has an 80% capacity retention at 10 years, and a working life of double that.

Nodge, do you also believe all the fuel efficiency claims of manufacturers.

Col

Colthebrummie said:

Nodge, do you also believe all the fuel efficiency claims of manufacturers.

Col

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Not at all, because cars don't drive on a rolling road in the real world, where there are hills and wind resistance to contend with.

However I do know enough about battery technology (solar energy and storage has been a hobby for over a decade), and how it is effected over time.

Lithium Ion batteries, especially the high specification cells used in vehicles don't just stop working at a set time interval. They gradually loose capacity over a very long period of time. This effect can be minimised by careful control of the charging cycle, discharge cycle and battery pack operating temperature. EV manufacturers know this, so they tailor the above profiles to provide a very long service life. Typically an EV battery will loose around 20% of its new capacity, after 10 years of use, meaning that 80% of its capacity is still available to use.
Most EV manufacturers are giving their vehicles 7 to 10 year warranties on all drive train components, which also includes the batteries.
Very few ICE vehicles have such long warranties, so this means that the EV manufacturers are more confident that an electric vehicle will outlast the warranties they provide.

From a user point of view, an average modern EV will cost the driver only 1/3rd to run, compared to even the most efficient vehicle of a similar size, so there are huge fuel savings to be had. On top of this, is the massive reduction in service costs, when compared to a similar ICE vehicle, so I can't see why there's so many who seem to be anti-EV.
Don't people want to get about, at 1/3rd the running costs.

I find this says sums up the situation perfectly.

Obviously the batteries used won't be the latest technology but currently several companies converting older vehicles are using batteries from Tesla and similar when they reach 80%. Which suggests the batteries have more life left in them but not enough for regular use ?
Not sure many would be giving such long warranties unless it is against a manufacturing defect. It is a battery therefore a consumable.
The cost of electricity will increase as ownership shifts away from ICE, the Gov't have no choice, they have to raise revenue.
But, the BIG question still is, where will tall this electricity come from and how do we all charge our vehicles ?
Too many questions and not enough honest answers.
It reminds me of the 'Great' Brexit Debate. Farage says we will save x £££ for the NHS. Cameron say, no we wont. That's it. No figures no argument !
Real honest facts please.

Just listened to the TED talk, he goes on a bit but does make perfect sense and I have to say is what I been saying for a long time.
Questions to be answered is what is the overall cost of EVs ? From mining, production, transport, disposal ...

Shedload said:

Obviously the batteries used won't be the latest technology but currently several companies converting older vehicles are using batteries from Tesla and similar when they reach 80%.

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Tesla batteries are the pinnacle of battery technology, so even when 10 years old, they still outperform new batteries from other manufacturers. This makes them perfect for DIY EV conversion, and so keeps the used price up, unfortunately.

Shedload said:

Which suggests the batteries have more life left in them but not enough for regular use ?

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80% remaining capacity is fine for a home built vehicle, as you simply add one more battery to compensate.

Even in a Tesla, an 80% retained range is probably fine for most owners.

Shedload said:

Not sure many would be giving such long warranties unless it is against a manufacturing defect. It is a battery therefore a consumable

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All current EV manufacturers are giving long warranties on all drive train components, including the battery.

Shedload said:

But, the BIG question still is, where will tall this electricity come from and how do we all charge our vehicles ?

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Renewable energy harnessing is the only way to keep the EV 100% green to run.
Over 30% of UK electricity generation came from renewable sources in 2020. This is going to increase 4 fold in the next decade, so there will be enough capacity to charge the EVs we'll be using.
This is interesting.

Shedload said:

Too many questions and not enough honest answers.

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The answers are around, but often hidden amongst noise, created by those who will loose out with a predominantly electric future.

Quite frankly, I have been hugely disappointed with my Hybrid. I received the car brand new from BMW in August and by October a recall had been placed on all models due to an issue with batteries and charging. Owners and drivers are not permitted to charge their vehicles until a solution can be identified. We are now nearing the end of January and still there is no solution. I return to my original point, the infrastructure is not sufficient at this time to cope with EV vehicles. In my opinion Hydrogen is the future, but in the meantime we should be actively exploring ways in which to develop the cleanest and most efficient combustion engines that will benefit the planet.

I don't have access to reliable information so maybe ev batteries are still good for 80% after 10 years but I think the power drop off will not be linear, in other words in year 11 it will be at 60% capacity and 30-40% the year after. I imagine once the power drops to less than 50% the batteries won't be very useful. I had a Honda Civic Hybrid in 2011, It's battery was showing signs of reduced capacity after only 2 years (40,000 miles) I reckon it was at least 25% down compared to new. Admittedly that was 10 years ago, but my experience of that car put me off electric vehicles and the claims made by the manufacturers. All I've got to go on regarding modern ev's is the my neighbours experience with his Nissan Leaf, he is not very impressed with its range.


Col

Colthebrummie said:

I don't have access to reliable information so maybe ev batteries are still good for 80% after 10 years but I think the power drop off will not be linear, in other words in year 11 it will be at 60% capacity and 30-40% the year after. I imagine once the power drops to less than 50% the batteries won't be very useful. I had a Honda Civic Hybrid in 2011, It's battery was showing signs of reduced capacity after only 2 years (40,000 miles) I reckon it was at least 25% down compared to new. Admittedly that was 10 years ago, but my experience of that car put me off electric vehicles and the claims made by the manufacturers. All I've got to go on regarding modern ev's is the my neighbours experience with his Nissan Leaf, he is not very impressed with its range.


Col

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That sweetly be a common theme. Thank

The VW owner may want to convert his vehicle so he can keep that specific vehicle in the future. It may be a family friend.

Hippo I think this is the reason.

Landyfox said:

Hippo I think this is the reason.

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Going a step further... I plan to do the same to my FL2. Some time in the future I will convert it to electric so I can continue to keep it. Like a lot of owners on ere I have a connection and friendship with the car I choose to own and drive. It's still quite new and on low miles so not worth doing now but when suitable donor vehicles start appearing on ebay in the future the electric bug I have won't be able to hold back. No more messing with oil leaks etc... I loves my hippo I does. He makes me happy.

Hippo said:

Going a step further... I plan to do the same to my FL2. Some time in the future I will convert it to electric so I can continue to keep it. Like a lot of owners on ere I have a connection and friendship with the car I choose to own and drive. It's still quite new and on low miles so not worth doing now but when suitable donor vehicles start appearing on ebay in the future the electric bug I have won't be able to hold back. No more messing with oil leaks etc... I loves my hippo I does. He makes me happy.

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I can appreciate that view, particularly in the future, but at this present time it doesn’t make sense as the infrastructure is insufficient, nor does it make financial sense at £20k plus. I do understand the emotional pull however, but do not feel an EV conversion is necessary at this moment in time.

Colthebrummie said:

I don't have access to reliable information so maybe ev batteries are still good for 80% after 10 years but I think the power drop off will not be linear, in other words in year 11 it will be at 60% capacity and 30-40% the year after. I imagine once the power drops to less than 50% the batteries won't be very useful.

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A battery which is charged and discharged in the correct profile and at a managed temperature will last a long time, simply showing a gradual drop in capacity as time goes on. It doesn't suddenly drop off to nothing after a few years, especially batteries from the likes of Tesla, where batteries have been recorded doing 1,000,000 miles. I don't know of many ICE vehicles where the engine has done anything like a Million miles, at least not without a few expensive rebuilds on the way.

Colthebrummie said:

I had a Honda Civic Hybrid in 2011, It's battery was showing signs of reduced capacity after only 2 years (40,000 miles) I reckon it was at least 25% down compared to new. Admittedly that was 10 years ago, but my experience of that car put me off electric vehicles and the claims made by the manufacturers.

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Old hybrids were notoriously bad at battery management, so they degraded fast. A modern EV doesn't brutally abuse its batteries like that, so they last a long long time.

Colthebrummie said:

All I've got to go on regarding modern ev's is the my neighbours experience with his Nissan Leaf, he is not very impressed with its range.

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The older Leaf had a battery which wasn't cooled or heated in any way, and battery pack life suffered as a result. Even so, 2010 Leaf with 100,000k on it, will still have 60-70% of its new range, which shows that even badly charged, overheated and abused batteries, don't just stop working.