deisel or lpg

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dexterdude

Member
Posts
51
Location
milton keynes
HI just trying to get some oppinions as to what would be recommended . 2.5 deisel hse or 4 or 4.6 lpg . car would not be used for commuting just general runaround . Which would be more reliable and have cheaper running costs ?
was thinking one from up to the year 2000.
Thanks in advance.
 
From my buying experience the diesels seem to be more expensive. They are also much slower.
But.. the BMW diesel engine in the P38s is very good, extremely durable, and pulls well (even if acceleration is not profound).
I'd expect they would be similar running costs, probably LPG slightly cheaper provided you always ran it on that. However having a diesel means there's no faff with looking for LPG stations.
You'll get many different opinions each way. I think the diesel has less to go wrong with it (head gasket seems to be the main thing that goes).
 
i have a td4 freelander at the moment but i drove a rangie the other day and fell in love with the comfort and the ride , they both have the same equipment . I have heard all sorts of horror stories about the problems with lpg but on the other hand alot of good stories. I would imagine the insurance would be cheaper for the deisel , I dont know about the road tax .
 
dexterdude said:
i have a td4 freelander at the moment but i drove a rangie the other day and fell in love with the comfort and the ride , they both have the same equipment . I have heard all sorts of horror stories about the problems with lpg but on the other hand alot of good stories. I would imagine the insurance would be cheaper for the deisel , I dont know about the road tax .
Click to expand...

Rover V8 + LPG = slipped liners judging by the many threads on the subject. Personally I would never consider driving a potential gas bomb.
Diesel is more reliable and cheaper to run even with the inflated price of diesel in the UK and you can always run on bio diesel which is much cheaper. Diesel is also much more readily available than LPG.
The diesels are not that slow, they just have a strange throttle response that takes some getting used to, floor it and they shift well enough:)
 
I think I'd say that if you want a reliable car (don't buy a P38..) then diesel's a better option. If something does go wrong it will be easier to fix because it will be a factory part; ie there'll be something in the manual, and someone on here will certainly know about it.
LPG does grant you London congestion charge amnesty though I believe...
Data's right about the throttle; it's about a mile long to provide great off road control, but yeah you get used to it. Also you can chip the diesels, which greatly improves performance (at expense of mpg and gearbox life).
 
When I was 'allowed' to get my current RR, myself and the girlfriend had a chat as my previous 3.9 Classic was stolen and I really missed having the Rangie around....

We decided that a Diesel was the best option as if the LPG system went U/S and I had to run it on petrol for any length of time would render it unaffordable, so it had to be a diesel.

Yes the V8's a bit quicker, sound better and run a bit smoother, but I have to say whilst at first I was surprised by the Diesels sluggishness, I soon learnt to drive it with appreciation of this, and as others have said, the throttle travel is longer and response muted until past 2100rpm.

Give it a prod and she will repsond quite lively.....

When I was searching ofr advice on the Diesels, one post always sticks in my mind:

Question: Are the Diesels really as slow as they say?
Answer: No, ...... they're slower.!!!!

But they are designed to do a job and they do it well....

When I bought mine, it had a reciept from Janspeed that says 'Re-Mapping' so it *may* have been mapped at some point, although I have not confirmed this, but mine does take off like a scalded whippet when the pedal hits the floor...!!!!
 
Petrol & LPG definately (a nicely installed, well tuned, multipoint one)....but then I have a personal hate of doozals, because I'm not a farmer or soldier. lmao
 
dexterdude said:
It's not speed that i would be looking for it's running costs and reliability .
Click to expand...
My Option would be a Diesel then....

Time for some maths:

19.8gal Tank = 89.9 litres

89.9 litres = £128.46 @ £1.429 p/l Diesel

25.6 MPG = 506 miles

128.46 / 506 = 25.3p per mile

--------------------------------------
19.8gal 89.9 litres of LPG @ 79.9 p/l = £71.83

13.5mpg = 267.3 miles

71.83 / 267.3 = 26.9per mile

---------------------------------------

As above LPG is marginal on cost comparison, but should the LPG system Break and you have to run on petrol for a short time while it is being fixed....

19.8gal 89.9 litres @ 1.379 p/l = £123.97

14.5mpg = 287.1 miles (petrol is a little more economical than LPG due to calorific value etc)

123.97 / 287.1 = 43.18p per mile

For me the choice was simple, I couldn't again afford to run a V8 on petrol for any length of time if the LPG system failed....so a Diesel was choosen as I can pretty much gauge the costs on that...!!!
 
Saint.V8 said:
My Option would be a Diesel then....

Time for some maths:

19.8gal Tank = 89.9 litres

89.9 litres = £128.46 @ £1.429 p/l Diesel

25.6 MPG = 506 miles

128.46 / 506 = 25.3p per mile

--------------------------------------
19.8gal 89.9 litres of LPG @ 79.9 p/l = £71.83

13.5mpg = 267.3 miles

71.83 / 267.3 = 26.9per mile

---------------------------------------

As above LPG is marginal on cost comparison, but should the LPG system Break and you have to run on petrol for a short time while it is being fixed....

19.8gal 89.9 litres @ 1.379 p/l = £123.97

14.5mpg = 287.1 miles (petrol is a little more economical than LPG due to calorific value etc)

123.97 / 287.1 = 43.18p per mile

For me the choice was simple, I couldn't again afford to run a V8 on petrol for any length of time if the LPG system failed....so a Diesel was choosen as I can pretty much gauge the costs on that...!!!
Click to expand...

You forgot to add in the £3K plus for a new block when the liners go south on the V8:eek:
 
LPG every time. Costs the same to run as a snoozel but gets to 60 in less than a day and doesn't need 10 miles of motorway to get there:)

Lots of scare stories regarding LPG. A well fitted multipoint system and an A1 cooling system and you'll be fine.

Its all luck of the draw with these P38's. My total spend on repairs with my latest having covered 8k miles is zero, my mates doozel having covered just under 10k is a little over £2k. He got unlucky and I got lucky. On that basis get that the one that is soooo much nicer to drive V8 every time.
 
I suppose the service costs would be more expensive on an lpg as not only do you need to get the usual items serviced , you also have to get the lpg serviced by a specialist .
does anybody know how the insurance costs compare ?
 
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LPG every time.

I've been using it in cars for years and have never had an LPG system fail on me yet. I do change the LPG filter every 10,000 miles or so, and drian the heavy ends from the reducer at the same time, but thats it. An LPG filter is about £8, draining the heavy ends involves undoing a screw, and doing it back up again. That's all you have to do for regular servicing. There are conversion costs, but they're re-coupable in a year or so depending on milage. Do it yourself and you're all done for £1000.

Insurance isn't an issue, you have to tell them, but as it's not a "performance upgrade" it doesn't have any effect on your premium price.

LPG does burn hotter, but so long as you keep your cooling system in good shape you shouldn't get any problems from that.

Also because LPG burns cleaner than Petrol, you oil stays in better shape for longer, I wouldn't recommend extending the service intervals, but over the years your engine will get cleaner inside than when it was running only on Petrol.

I've been looking in to this slipped liner problem all over the internet over the last month or so, and there doesn't seem to be any evidence that LPG blocks fail any more than Petrol ones. It seems to be very random. The Rover V8 engine converts well, with many people having done 10's of thousands of miles on LPG with no problem at all.

You might worry about driving along in a potential gas explosion, but the fuel systems are much safer than petrol. Cut off valves at both ends of the fuel pipe, a strong pressure vessel rather than a tank made from mild steel, and a fuel that if leaking due to impact would boil off and dissipate into the atmosphere rather than form a brooding puddle under your car. I think it's very safe.

I also should admit to understanding the Petrol engine better than the diesel engine, so I'm happier working on one, that combined with longer service intervals over a diesel, smoother engine, and less smelly fuel is enough for me.
 
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MrGorsky said:
LPG every time.

I've been using it in cars for years and have never had an LPG system fail on me yet. I do change the LPG filter every 10,000 miles or so, and drian the heavy ends from the reducer at the same time, but thats it. An LPG filter is about £8, draining the heavy ends involves undoing a screw, and doing it back up again. That's all you have to do for regular servicing. There are conversion costs, but they're re-coupable in a year or so depending on milage. Do it yourself and you're all done for £1000.

Insurance isn't an issue, you have to tell them, but as it's not a "performance upgrade" it doesn't have any effect on your premium price.

LPG does burn hotter, but so long as you keep your cooling system in good shape you shouldn't get any problems from that.

Also because LPG burns cleaner than Petrol, you oil stays in better shape for longer, I wouldn't recommend extending the service intervals, but over the years your engine will get cleaner inside than when it was running only on Petrol.

I've been looking in to this slipped liner problem all over the internet over the last month or so, and there doesn't seem to be any evidence that LPG blocks fail any more than Petrol ones. It seems to be very random. The Rover V8 engine converts well, with many people having done 10's of thousands of miles on LPG with no problem at all.

You might worry about driving along in a potential gas explosion, but the fuel systems are much safer than petrol. Cut off valves at both ends of the fuel pipe, a strong pressure vessel rather than a tank made from mild steel, and a fuel that if leaking due to impact would boil off and dissipate into the atmosphere rather than form a brooding puddle under your car. I think it's very safe.

I also should admit to understanding the Petrol engine better than the diesel engine, so I'm happier working on one, that combined with longer service intervals over a diesel, smoother engine, and less smelly fuel is enough for me.
Click to expand...


Read the other thread about the P38 stinking of gas:eek: In an accident pipes, vaporisers etc break just as easily as fuel pipes and gas explodes much more easily than petrol which also catches fire more easily than diesel. Terrorists use LPG for bombs, never heard of them using diesel:p
 
Datatek said:
Read the other thread about the P38 stinking of gas:eek: In an accident pipes, vaporisers etc break just as easily as fuel pipes and gas explodes much more easily than petrol which also catches fire more easily than diesel. Terrorists use LPG for bombs, never heard of them using diesel:p
Click to expand...

diesel and fertilizer that is why the quality of fertilizer has dropped to reduce risk of bomb making.

http://discovermagazine.com/2001/apr/featbomb
 
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Datatek said:
Terrorists use LPG for bombs, never heard of them using diesel:p
Click to expand...

Well you're correct that they make LPG stink so you can smell a leak. But it doesn't get on your hands, and shoes whilst filling up the way diesel does.

Nor does it smell in combustion the way diesel does.

Terrorists aside, you need a high concentration of gas in an enclosed space to make an explosion. If you broke your fuel pipe, and cracked your vaporiser in a crash, and you were conscious enough to turn your engine off the valves would close and what little LPG was in the pipe and Vaporiser would soon dissipate in to the atmosphere. Even it managed to burn it wouldn't burn for longer than a second.

If you were knocked out in the crash, and the the gas kept coming, and it was set alight by something (although what I can't think, it can't pour on to hot engine parts the way petrol can), admittedly you'd have a flame thrower out of the end of your fuel pipe, that is until the freezing effect of the liquid changing state from liquid to a gas put the flame out, or froze the pipe solid stopping the flow of gas.

If you're in such a big smash you manage to rupture the pressure vessel, I think fire would be the last of your worries.

Diesel may not burn easily, but it does burn, and if you had a leak in a crash, and it did set alight, you'd be on fire until you've used up all your fuel.

All of these explosion and fire-ball scenarios weather fuelled by gas, petrol, or diesel are so rare as to not bother worrying about though aren't they? Cars rarely catch fire in crashes, except in Hollywood.
 
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Think I have opened up a can of worms here ! Based on your responses , if you go the lpg route , make sure you have the liners replaced with Top Hat liners and that your cooling system is up to scratch, you will enjoy the drive more from the big V8 but be prepared to spend a bit more if the system goes down for any length and you have to run on petrol ,if you choose diesel then in theory you should have a few less costs and concerns over reliability but be prepared for a more sedate experience when driving , unless you "put the hammer down " . Guess it comes down to personal choice .
 
TCubed said:
I think I'd say that if you want a reliable car (don't buy a P38..) then diesel's a better option. If something does go wrong it will be easier to fix because it will be a factory part; ie there'll be something in the manual, and someone on here will certainly know about it.
LPG does grant you London congestion charge amnesty though I believe...
Data's right about the throttle; it's about a mile long to provide great off road control, but yeah you get used to it. Also you can chip the diesels, which greatly improves performance (at expense of mpg and gearbox life).
Click to expand...

I'm in the process of moving back to Essex at the moment and was worried:eek::eek: about the congestion charge on my 4.6 but after some research and putting my reg into there website it turns out she is exempt from the charge, she's year 2000 strait petrol :D:D:D
 
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