Defender Upgearing: College project help

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What Method would you use for uprating the comfortable cruising on a defender?

  • fit an overdrive

    Votes: 7 53.8%

  • Fit a 2nd hand transfer box with lower ratio (i.e 1.222 instead of 1.41)

    Votes: 4 30.8%

  • fit new transfer box gears (this allows more custom tuning of gears)

    Votes: 2 15.4%

  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    13
S

Simplyoliy

Member
Posts
58
Location
Edinburgh
Hi Guys, hope you all can help.

I'm studying engineering systems at college, we've been asked to do a report into an engineering topic of our choice, so what better than a land rover :D

I've made a poll, its basically looking at the options for reducing the engine load (rpm) for the same speed. from a defender -assuming a good working 200tdi- (options are overdrive, buy a transfer box, new transfer box gears fitted, or other), and favoured method for this. Taking cost into consideration, and maybe mention what you would do if you didn't have to consider costs (as i can't seem to put up 2 poll's!)

Any answers and help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Last edited:
what are you attempting to achieve, a given cruising velocity with reduced rpms of the engine?

Engine output is not a specific term.

Honestly what are the teaching the engineers of tomorrow ;)

ps one of the cheapest ways would be to increase the rolling circumference of the item being rotated - i.e bigger diameter tyres. And its easily reversible.

of course there are negatives to this option also, increased moment arm acting on the brakes meaning overall breaking power reduces (and you have to stamp you foot harder), additional unsprung weight (dependent on tyre manufacture) - meaning your suspension will have a much harder time the relative differences between sprung and unspring will reduce making the ride harsher...

there is a significant list of cons for tyres actually.... but they do look cool and your mates will be impressed, plus everyone knows that college gurls drop to their knees at the sight of a landy with big tyres.

Overdrive - additional weight, something else to go wrong, cost,increased frictional losses in the mechanism pros - offers all the original performance with the benefit of the flick of a switch gear changing. This could of course be overcome with the use of more appropriate materials such as ceramic carbine bearing etc... but any self respecting landrover owner would spit their drink out at the thought of anything quite so hi tech!!!! not to mention fookin expensive.
 
Last edited:
Id go fer the overdrive, if money were not a consideration, as it would allow me to keep normal ratios when towing, something that changing the transfer box affects IIRC

If I could have "other" too some sort of modified 3 way transfer box, with a low, normal and high.
 
vilguy said:
what are you attempting to achieve, a given cruising velocity with reduced rpms of the engine?

Engine output is not a specific term.

Honestly what are the teaching the engineers of tomorrow ;)
Click to expand...


Sorry, yes looking at reducing the engine load (or rpm) for the same speed.
 
remeber that wont necersarilyy make it any more efficient... all depends on the torque output on the engine and the efficiency at that gearing, you might end up giving it more beans to get the same speed because it hasnt the "power" to pull that gearing.

Just like how small engined cars are ****e at higher speeds for mpg compared to a larger engined car relative to the mpg they achieve at lower speeds. Its a fine balance.

And remember the aerodynamics of the landy arent exactly helping it... apart from reducing the braking requirements of course.

What is your end goal, improved mpg or top speed... etc etc.
 
Simplyoliy said:
Sorry, yes looking at reducing the engine load (or rpm) for the same speed.
Click to expand...

The engine will actually be having to work harder if you alter the gearing for reduced rpm for a given road speed. It will need more BANG per rotation compared to the original gearing. This means more power is required - more fuel, more air - so improvements in the engine performance are required to match it - i.e bigger intercooler and pump/injector mods to supply the correct air / fuel ratio.

fook me it almost sounds like i know what im talking about here.... :frown:

still beats writing some bloody specification for a pump... Im bored!

i should say that the above all depends on the engine and the road speed that you are attempting to achieve, the efficiency of the engine at that point and the efficiency at that point of the engine at the reduced rpm. If you start with the road speed at which the engine is most efficient - peak torque - this then means that the same efficiency point occurs at a HIGHER road speed, but then there are losses from the expenential increase in drag - meeting the drag co-efficient of a big brick not to mention all manner of other power sapping frictional losses.

...im getting a bit obsessed now.
 
Last edited:
and finally. Get back to fookin lessons you skiving git!

I dont pay me taxes for you to skive and go on landyzone. :rolleyes:

shouldnt you be making a v square or whatever.

Go get me a long weight
 
Last edited:
vilguy said:
and finally. Get back to fookin lessons you skiving git!

I dont pay me taxes for you to skive and go on landyzone. :rolleyes:

shouldnt you be making a v square or whatever.

Go get me a long weight
Click to expand...

I aint at college i'm at work.

A "full time" college course is 3 days a week, and of those 3 days its 8am-3pm. With 1.5hrs break for breakfast and lunch. :confused:

Going back to education from a full time career, its quite a shock!
 
you get it easy these days i tell thee ! ;)

is it a shock as to how easy "the modern education system" is?

Gone are the days of having to remember your calcs in your head, no sirree... they give them to you on piece of paper, next they will be saying you need tutorial lessons and handing out ipads to the poor and needy.

what course are you doing anyway.
 
Last edited:
Simplyoliy said:
Hi Guys, hope you all can help.

I'm studying engineering systems at college, we've been asked to do a report into an engineering topic of our choice, so what better than a land rover :D

I've made a poll, its basically looking at the options for reducing the engine load (rpm) for the same speed. from a defender -assuming a good working 200tdi- (options are overdrive, buy a transfer box, new transfer box gears fitted, or other), and favoured method for this. Taking cost into consideration, and maybe mention what you would do if you didn't have to consider costs (as i can't seem to put up 2 poll's!)

Any answers and help would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Go to Ashcroft transmission and the have a calculator chart to figure out a speed chart for tyre size to get mph you want and retain engine power/hp.

Change ring and pinion ratio way to go
 
vilguy said:
Gone are the days of having to remember your calcs in your head, no sirree... they give them to you on piece of paper, next they will be saying you need tutorial lessons and handing out ipads to the poor and needy.
Click to expand...

one of the collages in Birmingham offers all students free netbooks, free breakfast and i think free transport.

:eek:
 
i thought i heard something like that on the old wireless the other day but i dismissed it and thought i must be being a spakker...

obviously the education system is that stupid.

SIGN ME UP!

When i was at uni though there were only 2 gurls in the class. One was the size of a small tank, the other into kinky bondage ****e. maybe its improved these days?

If i say im retarded (not hard to prove!) wouldnt they just like give me a degree or else i would claim discrimination or something?
 
Thor1950 said:
Go to Ashcroft transmission and the have a calculator chart to figure out a speed chart for tyre size to get mph you want and retain engine power/hp.

Change ring and pinion ratio way to go
Click to expand...

changing the gearing wont get you free power for nought.

You cant have higher gearing and retain the same torque output at the wheel without altering the engine itself.
 
vilguy said:
changing the gearing wont get you free power for nought.

You cant have higher gearing and retain the same torque output at the wheel without altering the engine itself.
Click to expand...

well with 35 inch they suggest 4:12 for 75mph giving max torque and hp on the power curve, through all 5 gears. Think I would and will listen to Ashcroft before any one else so far. Haven't seen anyone on here that would be more of a expert than them
 
vilguy said:
what are you attempting to achieve, a given cruising velocity with reduced rpms of the engine?

Engine output is not a specific term.

Honestly what are the teaching the engineers of tomorrow ;)

ps one of the cheapest ways would be to increase the rolling circumference of the item being rotated - i.e bigger diameter tyres. And its easily reversible.

of course there are negatives to this option also, increased moment arm acting on the brakes meaning overall breaking power reduces (and you have to stamp you foot harder), additional unsprung weight (dependent on tyre manufacture) - meaning your suspension will have a much harder time the relative differences between sprung and unspring will reduce making the ride harsher...


there is a significant list of cons for tyres actually.... but they do look cool and your mates will be impressed, plus everyone knows that college gurls drop to their knees at the sight of a landy with big tyres.

Overdrive - additional weight, something else to go wrong, cost,increased frictional losses in the mechanism pros - offers all the original performance with the benefit of the flick of a switch gear changing. This could of course be overcome with the use of more appropriate materials such as ceramic carbine bearing etc... but any self respecting landrover owner would spit their drink out at the thought of anything quite so hi tech!!!! not to mention fookin expensive.
Click to expand...

You've just done his college course work for him all he needs to do is print it off and hand it in now

But for my say
If the only point of the project is to keep the road speed but lower the engine RPM then a larger tyre diameter would be the easiest way to get this result

But like Vilguy said you will get to a point where you need more torque to maintain the speed so an overdrive or switchable annular gear would make a better set up
 
from purely practical purposes in reallity over drive is best as well as the higher gearing it gives you more gears to select from to better match conditions ,changing transfer box is the cheapest
 
vilguy said:
you get it easy these days i tell thee ! ;)

is it a shock as to how easy "the modern education system" is?

Gone are the days of having to remember your calcs in your head, no sirree... they give them to you on piece of paper, next they will be saying you need tutorial lessons and handing out ipads to the poor and needy.

what course are you doing anyway.
Click to expand...

Yea.
Been there a few weeks, and only just starting to get going. The term "spoon fed" comes to mind.

Looking back, I should have applied straight to UNI as a mature student. But hey ho.

We have a compulsory learning development class. Help on how to study, how to take notes, research and how to fill out UCAS forms. :confused:
I think if you can't fill out a form, you really shouldn't be going to university!

The course is a HNC in engineering systems with renewables.
With the view to go onto a mechanical engineering degree next year.
 
Simplyoliy said:
Yea.


We have a compulsory learning development class. Help on how to study, how to take notes, research and how to fill out UCAS forms. :confused:
I think if you can't fill out a form, you really shouldn't be going to university!
.
Click to expand...

learn to compulsory not go to that class... sod going to that ****e. Youve got better things to do than waste your time.

In the end i stopped going to half my classes and just did the assignments and exams. Sitting in a room with a bunch of fookwits is just distracting from your actual learning. I can appreciate that some people are genuinely there to learn. But many are just there because they want to avoid getting a job.

Anyway back to topic...
 
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