Davies Craig EWP - preliminary results

no worrys, pleased to help, had all kinds of problems with my mgf, found sterling very helpfull, & a pleasant bunch of people to deal with

emandem said:

hi wl jayne, thought you might be intreasted to know that STERLING AUTOMOTIVE in eastbourne, east sussex do a low coolant level warning kit for "k" series engine (acctually developed for mgf), might be worth giving them a ring no: 01323 438754, would have thought suitable for fl, regards, emandem

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We already have a complete how to write up on here, if peeps could be bothered to look.

WLJayne said:

It's my hope that our collective knowlege we will be able to offer a complete K series uprate solution on here to anyone who's interested in having a go. This should have been done bloody years ago,

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Dont kid yoself. These have been discussed and suggested on here for 5-7 years. Very few bother to action any of them or to even read the threads. Having said that, all power to your elbow. Hope it works for you .

Yeh I don't expect this to tread or anything, it's not a cheap system. But at least the info will be here just in case, that's what Landyzone is all about .

The important thing is that you are getting benefits from doing it....... and kind enough to post back to say so. Not everyone does that.

Well peeps have been kind enough to leave other stuff up here that's been critical to me getting this car back on the road so it's the least I can do - a quantity I specialise in.

Crazy how few K series owners there are here from that poll fred, I thought there were far more than that but everyone has doozles . But I'll be sticking around even when every last gremlin has been bashed out of this, lots of newbies to help and I'll need help with a series as and when I get one !

The Mad Hat Man said:

We already have a complete how to write up on here, if peeps could be bothered to look.

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i"ve only been on here for about a week now, i had no idea there had been a write up, i just read this thread & thought it might be useful for people to know there is something out there that could help in preventing h/g failure, really don"t understand why that warrants the angry icon!!???!!

emandem said:

i"ve only been on here for about a week now, i had no idea there had been a write up, i just read this thread & thought it might be useful for people to know there is something out there that could help in preventing h/g failure, really don"t understand why that warrants the angry icon!!???!!

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It's not personal mate, MHM has worked very hard on the FAQ and other parts of this site and understandably gets miffed when people don't use it. When you're new to the site you don't know what a wealth of info lies behind the search button and in the FAQ, most discover it within their first few dozen posts but not everyone does and just want answers now now now without any effort on their part.

You can lead a horse to water eh....

WLJayne said:

It's not personal mate, MHM has worked very hard on the FAQ and other parts of this site and understandably gets miffed when people don't use it. When you're new to the site you don't know what a wealth of info lies behind the search button and in the FAQ, most discover it within their first few dozen posts but not everyone does and just want answers now now now without any effort on their part.

You can lead a horse to water eh....

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fair comment, however, as i said, i was just reading out of intreast, i"ve got a td4 myself, i read 99% of threads, just getting an insite about freelanders on the whole, the fact the kit i reffered to was developed for mgf"s, i was"nt sure if it was common knowledge to all "k" series variant owners, just trying to pass on a tit bit of info

emandem said:

fair comment, however, as i said, i was just reading out of intreast, i"ve got a td4 myself, i read 99% of threads, just getting an insite about freelanders on the whole, the fact the kit i reffered to was developed for mgf"s, i was"nt sure if it was common knowledge to all "k" series variant owners, just trying to pass on a tit bit of info

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anyway, i do appologise, it does'nt matter, it's me being a touchy newbie this is getting away from the point of your thread

emandem said:

fair comment, however, as i said, i was just reading out of intreast, i"ve got a td4 myself, i read 99% of threads, just getting an insite about freelanders on the whole, the fact the kit i reffered to was developed for mgf"s, i was"nt sure if it was common knowledge to all "k" series variant owners, just trying to pass on a tit bit of info

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Don't take it to heart, it's not personal. I still can't find stuff on here! Have the odd argument about something get stressed then think..... Its a bloody forum it shouldn't get to me but any way I'll be looking at all options for a level sensor before taking the plunge!
W

emandem said:

i"ve only been on here for about a week now, i had no idea there had been a write up, i just read this thread & thought it might be useful for people to know there is something out there that could help in preventing h/g failure, really don"t understand why that warrants the angry icon!!???!!

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It wasnt personal - just a comment in general.
What Wayne said.
You will find, as most have , that you can put a lot of time and effort in, and then some newb will come on and say summat like "how do I fit an EWP to a freelander" and someone else will reply " look on LRO - its a good site". Doesnt really inspire any of us, does it?

Put yp flak jacket on and enjoy the site (note smiley face)

that is totally understandable, you've put a lot of time & effort into writing tutorials, got me flak jacket out of mothballs, ready to go

emandem said:

that is totally understandable, you've put a lot of time & effort into writing tutorials, got me flak jacket out of mothballs, ready to go

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I forsee you will prosper here , good man!

Well I thought I'd post up some additional info now I've had it in the car for a while now. Some very interesting results.

I mentioned that I suspected that the pump was having trouble working lightly enough to keep the engine at 85 degrees C. At idle it sits at 75 ish - the pump just can't help but put too much cool water around. It'll sit quite happily at 80 degrees when cruising, though not at my requested 85! Sometimes at around 60mph it will dump the temperature right to the bottom of the gauge - I have no idea what causes this and it is concerning at times. It seems to settle down eventually but never finds a stable equilibrium.

However, because there is a slight time lag between a sudden increase in revs and the pump measuring a sharp rise in temp, you can see it in action. The temp gauge will rise from the middle by 5 or so degrees on the needle and then the pump will catch it and send it right back to the middle, this all happens in the space of a second so there's never any damage. But it shows how quick the system is. Of course with the original mechanical pump the change in the same situation would be instantaneous as it's tied directly to RPM.

My preliminary conclusions is that the pump and controller are working perfectly, but the huge Land Rover radiator is just providing too much cool water for the system to maintain a medium temperature. So it lives in the 70's for the most part. I'd still like to record some telemetry to post up.

DD suggested fixing an ali plate to blank of a portion off the radiator - as the convection cooling at high speeds is damned fierce which is what causes these 60mph temp dumps I reckon.

So, I can say that the pump keeps this engine really, REALLY cool - is this a problem? I don't know. It never lets the engine get hot, which was the object of the exercise. But these big variances in temperature are a slight concern.

But so far no sign of any real trouble.

Will.

perhaps that shows std system if everything okay is fine apart the original gasket

jamesmartin said:

perhaps that shows std system if everything okay is fine apart the original gasket

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Not sure about that, I think that the cooling of the standard system at lower speeds and idle is inadequate hence why Freelanders that do frequent short or urban journeys are more prone to SHGF. With the standard system you get low flow rates at low speed (no ram air) and high flow rates at high speeds (lots of ram air over the rad) - really you need it the other way around and that's what the EWP gives you. One size does not fit all in the case of the K series it seems. By adding the pump you change alot of variables, and it'll take time to get in just right. But I'll take too cool over too hot any day !

The new gasket wan't enough to stop my engine's 2nd HGF after all .

2nd hgf doesnt necessarily mean you need ewp ,but you havent cured all faults or damage caused by the first ,too cool is poor for engine wear apart from emissions piston skirt isnt round till upto temp

jamesmartin said:

2nd hgf doesnt necessarily mean you need ewp ,but you havent cured all faults or damage caused by the first ,too cool is poor for engine wear apart from emissions piston skirt isnt round till upto temp

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The cowboy garage that did the first HG did a very poor job indeed and you're right, it certainly caused the second HGF. They charged the previous owner for skimming the head and all kinds of valve work but none of this had been done! However I think I did a much more thorough job and repeat HGF is hopefully unlikely, and as I plan on keeping this car I'm hoping that the EWP will totally eliminate the heat soak issues that can contribute to SHGF.

Engine wear is a concern but when you say "up to temp" how hot is that? Surely low eighties is ok? The thermostat in the standard system is supposed to open at 85 with the PRT I think.

Again what the controller sensor says the temp is and what the reader said the engine temp sensor was saying when we had it plugged in while driving was very different. I really need to do it again to see what the temp is actually doing. The "actual" temperature was always a good few degrees higher than what the EWP's computer was showing. So the temp might not be all that low, hopefully in a range between 80 to 90 degrees.

But as Freelander has mentioned before about his, they sometimes blow again multiple times even when they have had a good HG job done on them. There seems to be no way of knowing - I'm hoping that my EWP will bring us closer to a permanent solution for the problem. I'm just the Guinea Pig .

somethings you cant feasably predict ,like whether head casting is still stable ,only time and numbers give inclination of benefit or not ,id have thought your not running too cool