Brake Pipe Leak

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gstman

gstman

Member
Posts
59
Location
St Lucia
Hi Guys,

Let me set the plot,

Noticed some leaking from my Rear Diff, thought it was the pinion seal. Then got some a low break fluid message and red brake light. Topped it, got the same message 2 days later, so i figured must be a leak. Google my thought, was on the patch of a failed PCRV valve. Checked the valve, no signs of leakage.
Then I got this crazy idea to trace the brake pipe along the body of the for leaks, so before i started, i grabbed my Rave, searched, and notice the rear lines cross over the rear axle.

Went under the rover, wiped the axle and exhaust pipe dry. Started her up, pumped the brake 3 or 4 times...went back under and there it was, raining down.

Found this:


So I relieve on not having to change a pinion seal or PCRV valve (thing under the coolant overflow tank), But I can't seem to find an where to purchase the replacement pipe.
I notice the mention of using custom copper pipes in the forums, but some were not keen on its ability to handle the pressure.

So my question is, should i use OEM steel or custom copper pipe. If OEM, can you point me to online shop with it for sale, if Copper what are the specs for the pipe, i'm guessing the external and internal diameter and length.

And also how difficult is this going to be to change fix.

Thanks in Advance
 

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system doesnt use that much pressure and 3/16 copper or cunifer is perfect ,it is what garages use,steel is used as its cheap
 
gstman said:
Hi Guys,

Let me set the plot,

Noticed some leaking from my Rear Diff, thought it was the pinion seal. Then got some a low break fluid message and red brake light. Topped it, got the same message 2 days later, so i figured must be a leak. Google my thought, was on the patch of a failed PCRV valve. Checked the valve, no signs of leakage.
Then I got this crazy idea to trace the brake pipe along the body of the for leaks, so before i started, i grabbed my Rave, searched, and notice the rear lines cross over the rear axle.

Went under the rover, wiped the axle and exhaust pipe dry. Started her up, pumped the brake 3 or 4 times...went back under and there it was, raining down.

Found this:


So I relieve on not having to change a pinion seal or PCRV valve (thing under the coolant overflow tank), But I can't seem to find an where to purchase the replacement pipe.
I notice the mention of using custom copper pipes in the forums, but some were not keen on its ability to handle the pressure.

So my question is, should i use OEM steel or custom copper pipe. If OEM, can you point me to online shop with it for sale, if Copper what are the specs for the pipe, i'm guessing the external and internal diameter and length.

And also how difficult is this going to be to change fix.

Thanks in Advance
Click to expand...

You will have to make a pipe or have someone splice repair it. Easy to do. IF you have the tools. Copper brake pipe will stand the pressure easily without a problem.
 
This forum is so FREAKING helpful!!

Thanks jamesmartin and Wammers.

@Wammers
with the splice repair route, Am I correct to assume, that the entire brake line will need to be removed or can the area in question can just be unclipped and worked on?

Thanks again.
 
gstman said:
This forum is so FREAKING helpful!!

Thanks jamesmartin and Wammers.

@Wammers
with the splice repair route, Am I correct to assume, that the entire brake line will need to be removed or can the area in question can just be unclipped and worked on?

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

The reason why WAMMERS emphasised IF you have the tools is because making a flare in the steel pipe takes a bit more than flaring copper. It could be done in place, depends on your dexterity, but don't forget that you want to keep it all clean as well.
 
OK guys, off it will come then.
Just to find someone who can the job.

Will be back with progress and and pictures.

Thanks
 
Steel (Or Bundy as it's known) is cheaper than the non ferrous options..that's simply the main reason for it's use at the manufacturing stage.
Just remember that steel rusts and the non ferrous doesn't so replacing with copper or cunifor will last a lifetime, the car will fall apart before the brake pipes do !!

As a guide, a 25 ft coil of 3/16" dia. copper will cost around £15 to £20 in the U.K. If you need new brake pipe nuts, they are M10 X 1.00 pitch
 
jamesmartin said:
system doesnt use that much pressure and 3/16 copper or cunifer is perfect ,it is what garages use,steel is used as its cheap
Click to expand...
Go cunifer or go home.

And if the pipe is that badly corroded, then you should assume it is all that badly corroded. Replace the whole thing, from front to rear. It'll take about 30-40 minutes to make a new pipe and install it. It'd also be wise to consider changing all of the brake pipes. If one has gone that bad, you can only assume the rest have.
 
steel pipes tend to have localised corrosion especially on hidden areas like behind wheel arch liners,joints are not a problem at all ,but is as said worth checking all the pipes ,i often find corroded areas where the rest looks like new an inch or so away
 
jamesmartin said:
steel pipes tend to have localised corrosion especially on hidden areas like behind wheel arch liners,joints are not a problem at all ,but is as said worth checking all the pipes ,i often find corroded areas where the rest looks like new an inch or so away
Click to expand...
I realise you can splice, but to be honest I wouldn't for a permanent repair. You've got to bleed the brakes anyway, so you might as well spend the bit extra for a bit of piece of mind.
 
Here is my fix to the leaky pipe.

I believed we used a 3/16" copper nickle type pipe.

Removal of the wheel well covers, made access to the pipe adequate, but not a easy task. A mini pipe cutter will be useful though.:rolleyes:

  • Green is the section of pipe replaced.

  • Red is the damaged section of the pipe (it actually broke in two, when we touch it while under the vehicle- and there was no spray of brake fluid)

  • Purple are the areas the pipe were joined with 3/16" compression fittings.

The process took approx. 3hrs in all, including bleeding (why is this procedure so involved)

This was done on the 11/march, so far no issues. So i guess Im waiting for something else to popup. Until then :5bdriving:

Thanks for all the assistance and comments guys!....
 

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gstman said:
Here is my fix to the leaky pipe.

I believed we used a 3/16" copper nickle type pipe.

Removal of the wheel well covers, made access to the pipe adequate, but not a easy task. A mini pipe cutter will be useful though.:rolleyes:

  • Green is the section of pipe replaced.
  • Red is the damaged section of the pipe (it actually broke in two, when we touch it while under the vehicle- and there was no spray of brake fluid)
  • Purple are the areas the pipe were joined with 3/16" compression fittings.
The process took approx. 3hrs in all, including bleeding (why is this procedure so involved)

This was done on the 11/march, so far no issues. So i guess Im waiting for something else to popup. Until then :5bdriving:

Thanks for all the assistance and comments guys!....
Click to expand...

If you only had the rear lines open and blocked open end so all fluid did not run out. You do not need to do full bleed procedure, you just need to bleed the the rear end. Same if you change a caliper, as long as you put a clamp on the nearest flexi you only need to bleed that caliper.
 
My motor factor offers me two types copper or nickle plated the latter lasts longer but its harder to bend . The flaring tools are cheap and don't forget new ends for the pipe, and to put the male or female ends on first before you flare the ends of the pipe if doing it yourself . Try flaring practise before you actuly make pipe .
 
Hi Gtsman,
I replaced both my rear brake pipes last night. Took me about 4 hours in total. That was working underneath car.
I already have a flaring tool so cost me less than £20 for copper pipe & unions.
Hardest bit was feeding the new pipe through for the off side one - its pretty long and well tucked away. It's not technically difficult - just awkward .
Remove rear wheel arch liners(easy) to improve access and set suspension to high and you should be Ok.
Good luck.
Steve.

As
 
Only thing i will say about this is, that if you repair brake pipes use proper brake pipe unions tube nuts with flared pipes. Not brass compression fittings, they could/should be pulled as an inappropraite repair on the MOT.
 
when working on cars in the past, i always replaced the whole pipe. much easier and safer IMO. you can buy, as already mentioned, a good flare tool for approx £20-£30 and a pipe bender for around the same. pipe bolts/nuts can be bought for about £10 for 50 and 25m of pipe for not a lot of cash. takes practice but with the right tools it is a much nicer job and will last longer and be much safer. you can even buy chassis clips in case you cant route the pipes where the OEM parts went. there are way around everything.
 
I would definately replace the complete section(s) where corrosion is present, even if it appears that the problem lies in certain parts of the offending pipe run. Copper pipe will far outlast the life of the car and will not need doing again...If a job's worth doing, do it properly rather than patch it up, only to replace another section after when it goes. I know that it is a ****ty job and the run along the fuel tank is a bit awkward but it is straightforward if you excercise care and not just plough into it...I have done it myself and the tank does not have to be lowered.

Just remember..brakes, steering and tyres are the only thing between you and the graveyard !!!!
 
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