bought a TD5 and have a starting problem

Just bought a TD5 defender 2004 and I am having an issue.

When I go to start it turns over a few times with a lot of smoke and then eventually it starts the smoke clears up and it drives great. It seems to start faster if I put my foot on the accelerator.

If i turn off and then restart it starts first time. If I let it get cold it will have the same problem.

I thought this was the glow plugs so I changed them and still the same.

I checked the ECU plug to see if there was any oil in there and nothing.

I changed the air flow sensor. Again no difference.

I checked the fuses & relays under the driver’s seat and the connection seem to be good.

On my 300TDI it carries a glow plug relay (PRC6913) on the bulk head under the bonnet which I thought it might be but I have had no luck finding it on the TD5. (unless it doesn’t carry PRC6913).

Is there anything else anyone would recommend me checking???


My next step would be to change the fuel harness just to see if this is the issue.

injector seals and washers as it sounds like air is entering fuel line when your parked for any length of time

johnlad said:

injector seals and washers as it sounds like air is entering fuel line when your parked for any length of time

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I concur.

Ok thanks I will give that a go today. Fingers crossed it sorts out the problem.

You may also check your battery voltage. I thought I was going to have to do injector washers myself b/c my cold starts were 7-10 or so cranks, then a quite a bit of smoke and a little rough at first. Turns out my battery was both a little on the small side as far as cold cranking amps, and it wasn't too healthy. Combined it wasn't enough juice for it to start correctly. A healthy replacement battery (I think the td5 calls for 800CCA) made a huge difference to cold starts. I'd check your battery under starting load to see what voltage it shows, if it drops too low then that's a good sign the battery needs a good charge/change.

I also cleaned up the grounding points on the chassis, from what I remember there are at least two -- one on the bulkhead and another on the frame rail (?). Cleaning those made a big difference. . Windshield wipers moved faster, lights were brighter...

Hope you get it sorted!

Ok, here is the latest.

I changed yesterday the o-rings, seals and while I was in there the fuel harness. After that it still was doing the same thing.

I changed batteries with my 300tdi that has an optima yellow top and then changed it with a brand new battery. Still had the problem.

I then cleaned all the earths and left on the new battery, tried to start it and two cranks later it started with no smoke.

I'm going to try again in the morning and fingers crossed this issue is solved!

I will let you know if the problem is solved.

Thanks for all your advice,

Interesting update... If you have a voltmeter it may be a good idea to see what voltage the battery drops to while starting. I don't think it should go below about 10 volts when under load from starting. My '03 Td5 Def was just totally different starting with the right amount of amps. Let us know how you get on.

And I still have the same problem.......damm lol

I tried it with a red top 800CCA optima battery and I was getting 10.6V when it was turning over.

My mechanic seems to think 4 of the injectors need changing.

I have spoken to someone else that had the same problem and he seems to think it is the piston rings.

I am going to do a compression test to see if it is the rings and then I guess I will have to change the injectors.

If I do have to change the injectors are they a straight swap or do they have to be programmed to the vehicle?

Unless anyone has any other ideas before I have to spend that money?

seriously, how bad is it? afaik, the td5 has 4 glows so you will probably get a bit of unburnt fuel when starting, especially noticeable when it gets cold.

if you have just bought it a few days ago, then has it been sitting for a while? Why not drive it often for a few weeks and chuck a few tanks of decent fuel through it. maybe stick in some injector cleaner in the tank.

then re-evaluate in a few weeks?

when you changed the o rings and copper washers did you use genuine parts as the copied washers aren't that good, and the injector seat has to be really clean

i haven't got a td5, but can't he stamp on the pedal 5 times to start the auto purge? if that works, then it's deffo air leak.

trax said:

i haven't got a td5, but can't he stamp on the pedal 5 times to start the auto purge? if that works, then it's deffo air leak.

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yeah he can do that,
what points towards it being air in the system is he said it starts easier when he puts his foot on the accelerator,
that's the procedure for starting the car after running out of fuel, when air would of been drawn into fuel lines from the tank,

johnlad said:

yeah he can do that,
what points towards it being air in the system is he said it starts easier when he puts his foot on the accelerator,
that's the procedure for starting the car after running out of fuel, when air would of been drawn into fuel lines from the tank,

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ah right, all these bloody electronic vehicles

I agree I'd probably drive it for a while to see if it changes during that time. Also I'd think a Nanocom would help you get a general sense of the injector health. The cylinder balance function shows you each injector at idle and if those numbers are high then that would be a a good sign something is amiss. Maybe someone here has one you can borrow? (I would but I'm not too close to you.)

One other thing that was an almost free and very big improvement to my '03 Td5 was to clean out the catalytic converter. Mine was totally plugged up and this also made a pretty big difference to everything, including starting, although it's likely not the main culprit here. If you have one it'll be on your exhaust down pipe, just after the last bend, you can see it from underneath the passengers door area. I can explain how I cleaned mine if it'll help. (I'm all about the free and relatively easy things to do before dumping loads of $$ on injectors, etc.)

Yes the vehicle had sat down for a long time before I purchased it as I bought knowing it needed some TLC.

I'm in the Caribbean so I don't think anyone will be that close lol. but I will see if there is anyone local that can do the Nanocom.

I'm going to take all your advice and drive it for a bit to see if it clears up and also to see if there is any other problems with it before I start buying costly parts.

johnson1234 said:

Yes the vehicle had sat down for a long time before I purchased it as I bought knowing it needed some TLC.

I'm in the Caribbean so I don't think anyone will be that close lol. but I will see if there is anyone local that can do the Nanocom.

I'm going to take all your advice and drive it for a bit to see if it clears up and also to see if there is any other problems with it before I start buying costly parts.

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Where abouts in the carribean?

jhealey said:

I agree I'd probably drive it for a while to see if it changes during that time. Also I'd think a Nanocom would help you get a general sense of the injector health. The cylinder balance function shows you each injector at idle and if those numbers are high then that would be a a good sign something is amiss. Maybe someone here has one you can borrow? (I would but I'm not too close to you.)

One other thing that was an almost free and very big improvement to my '03 Td5 was to clean out the catalytic converter. Mine was totally plugged up and this also made a pretty big difference to everything, including starting, although it's likely not the main culprit here. If you have one it'll be on your exhaust down pipe, just after the last bend, you can see it from underneath the passengers door area. I can explain how I cleaned mine if it'll help. (I'm all about the free and relatively easy things to do before dumping loads of $$ on injectors, etc.)

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If you can explain how you cleaned the catalytic converter that would be great! I would imagine that it will be plugged up especially with our fuel quality not being the best here.

Thanks a lot for all your help

Ah, ok. Especially if you have an EGR fitted (as it came stock) and bad fuel, that can mean lots of muck in the cat. One thing though, if you can remove the down pipe and then have it cut off and have a straight pipe fitted, that would be the best alternative. (of course, depending on your emissions regs). Or if you're able to find or buy one w/o you can fit a new one.

So I removed the down pipe (mine luckily was easy, not much rust). Soak the bolts holding it on to the exhaust manifold and the other end of the exhaust in something to free them (liquid wrench, etc.) first so they don't break off or something. You do also have to remove the metal frame cross brace thing (sorry, it's late), which is just held on by a few bolts, otherwise you can't get the down pipe out. After I got it out I just ran water through it both ways, was kind of shocked at how much crap came out of it. I'd use two buckets and just run water back and forth so you don't cause an environmental hazard with all the soot. I then soaked it overnight in a citrus degreaser (Simple Green) which I read somewhere is generally safe on the cat. If you google this you'll see people using all sorts of things though. To give you an idea I tested it when it was first off with a vacuum cleaner blowing through it and air would hardly go through. After I cleaned it air went through it easily. So hope this helps. This made a huge difference to mine -- MAF values went to normal levels, power restored everywhere. My '03 sounds a lot like yours -- it was sitting for quite some time and needed so work, but nothing too major.

sorry to hijack this thread, but what are the torque setting for the injectors and the injector rocker shaft.

cheers

steamlandy said:

sorry to hijack this thread, but what are the torque setting for the injectors and the injector rocker shaft.

cheers

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Rocket shaft 33nm

Injector clamps 32nm