3.9 4.2 or 4.6

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Khryztal

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725
Location
Felcourt. Surrey
Ok, looking for your views on this please.
Thinking of doing something with my engine. Basically I'm after a little more power.
Should I change to a larger engine or rally build my 3.9?
The real q is what is the best size versus reliability.
 
I'd be inclined to stay with something standard for the vehicle, so you don't get into any 'silly' problems with things like ECU's etc.

The 3.9/4.0 is a decent lump and can be made to fly at reasonable costs, but if you want to throw serious money at it with wild cam etc then the 4.6 is probably a batter starting point, but bear in mind that the block is a known problem area.

Peter
 
basically all the same block with different cranks,I have just changed my 4.0 d2 to a 4.6 using a new crank,but be warned you can get carried away I had my block top hatted,everything balanced,fitted the 4.0 pistons to the 4.6 rods to raise comp to 10.5:1,tops pocketed for the stage 4 big valve heads,then had the intake manifold ported,kn filter and hedman headers oh and a piper 284 cam....bloody quick now though:)
 
basically all the same block with different cranks,I have just changed my 4.0 d2 to a 4.6 using a new crank,but be warned you can get carried away I had my block top hatted,everything balanced,fitted the 4.0 pistons to the 4.6 rods to raise comp to 10.5:1,tops pocketed for the stage 4 big valve heads,then had the intake manifold ported,kn filter and hedman headers oh and a piper 284 cam....bloody quick now though:)
Ere Matchie man,dont suppose you have any 350 bits hanging around - I am starting to gather bits to build a rigid trials bike.I dont want to butcher a complete bike so I'm going to do it from bits as and when I find them.
 
nah sorry m8 mine is a g85 engine in a metisse frame,best bet would be to buy a roadbike engine!
That sounds like a very smart bit of kit ! Just thought it was worth asking,anyone playing with stuff like that often has a few useful boxes of bits under the bench.I think the ally barrell is going to be the hard to find/expensive bit.No rush tho,that project is the third bike in the line,the one I'm doing now is 2 years and counting !
 
3.5 & 3.9 are one 'family' of RV8 variant; 4.0; 4.2, 4.6 & 5.0 are another.
The block casting is the same, but then its machined & dressed differently for the different engines.
3.5 & 3.9 have smaller crank bearings, so the cranks are not interchangeable with the bigger blocks, and they have distributor timing covers (& cam?) where the bigger blocks were dressed to run distributorless.
Perms and combinations of what's possible with an RV8 is pretty much endless, BUT:-
4.0l is the same bore & stroke dimensions as the 3.9, but a 'weaker' block.
When they started making the P38, they started 'screening' the block castings, as by increasing the journal and bore sizes, they had aproached what is known as 'minimum metal condition', which is basically, they had used up all thier margin for error and any distortion in the block casting, which is one of the reasons the bigger family of engines have a reputation for slipped liners.
'Best' blocks got built up into 4.6's, worst got built up to 4.0's and anything in between as a 4.2.
So if you are starting with something to mess with, a 4.6 block has to be the better starting point, as that would have got the better block, but its already at the limits.
A 4.0 or 4.2, isn't as good a starting point, and OK you could honk it out to 4.6 or 5.0, but of the block was good enough to take it, the factory would have built it up as a bigger motor to begin with......
So, for my money, the 3.9 is the better starting point; basically, the smaller journals mean theres more metal in the block, so it's the stronger starting point.
And a 'built' 3.9 will be as reliable as you want to build it.... get silly with it, and it can make as much power as anything else........ or explode just as quickly!
But, time effort and diligence to the buiild, more likely to get more power and more reliability from a completey rebuilt 3.9 than from taking a bigger motor out of a dead P38 cobbling the injection and ignition to suit the earlier engine bay, and hoping for the best...
But not cheap.
Figure a grand, JUST to rebuild a V8 'properly', and then as much as your bank-manager will tolerate on goodies for it.
Personally, I'd stick my money into building as tough a bottom end as I could to begin with; I'd have the block top-hat linered, the crank ground, balenced, lightened and 'wedged', rods, I'd 'like' to go for forged racing versions, but funds and road use would probably prompt lightened and peeded standard versions; and pistons, again, if not forged race items, at least lightened stockers.
That 'sorted', you can build up with your preffered blend of cam, tappets, push-rods, rockers valves and heads, then add whatever induction and ignition you fancy, and to some degree, you can use stock bits to get the motor built and installed, and swap them out as and when funds allow, after.
But, doing it on the cheap, dead P38, stripped for spares would probably leave you an effectively free engine; dress it with a Mega-Squirt engine management, bung in a suitable cam and new timing set, and you'd have a lot of very cheap power to play with whatever the capacity........ and if it goes 'pop'...... well, you go look for another dead P38 to pillage, dont you?
 
Thanks teflon.
So basically stay with a 3.9 and tweak it. Not looking for huge amounts of power, just a little bit more, as I do a terrific amount of milage in the RRC. And a lot of it is on smaller back roads. Thinking cam, induction etc. Already got tubular manifolds (stainless) and system.
 
I have to say that I love the 3.9 and have one in my classic but to be honest I have an m60 4.0 v8 in my BMW which has twice as much power (325bhp) twice as much tourque (340 ftlb) will do 300 000 miles and uses half as much fuel. You can pick them up cheap in old 1990's bmws (e34 540i which I have) and if you are going to spend lots of cash and do lots of work then it might be worth putting one of those in instead .

Dont get me wrong I know its alot of work to swap over but its less work than the above and if you got a nice one (and theyare cheap including the car) you wouldnt have to rebuild it first, maybe just get it mapped like I did with mine to get the extr 40.
 
A friend of mine stroked his 3.5 to 4.3ltr. with a kit from ''real steel'' thereby retaining the strongest block but with buckets of torque. Trouble is he got a bit carried away whilst towing his caravan one day & blew the 'A' pack on the ZF. I believe 4.2's have been known to break cranks.
 
Brilliant posts. I was on the verge of swapping my kitted out 3.9 Disco for a 4.0 NAS one here in Spain. But I think I'll stick with it. What can I do (with a small budget) to upgrade the power a little. I understand that the ecu can be 'downloaded' sent away then reinstalled giving another 20 torques and 30 BHP - this would probably fall into the category alread explained previously though of the engine being designed as is and any upgrade could cause me problems down the road. I go to Morocco a lot and I'm often at 4000rpm in 3rd low box on the sand just to keep momentum going so the engine gets worked hard for long periods - Glad a cup of tea is more expensive than a tank of petrol over there!
 
What can I do (with a small budget) to upgrade the power a little.
Old rule of race prep:
Before looking for more than standard, make sure you have what youy should AS standard.....

3.9V8 is rated, according to the books at 'around' 185bhp; on a dyno, a factory fresh engine can make anything from 160bhp to nearly 200bhp, becouse we are dealing with an engine designed and tolerenced to the sort opf machining capabilities of old men in flat-caps leaning over hand-lathes, measuring clerances in 'tho' by eye, rather than Computer Numerically Controlled machining centres with lazer telemetry checking sizes as they cut to within a few microns!

Then, engines wear.

Some actually get better with wear, curiousely, as bits bed in, but more usually they dont, and normal wear and general neglect of propper service sees them loose a lot of useful effect, robbed further as the rest of the vehicle similarly wears and adds extra load.

Been demonstrated time and time again, engines, even ones that have been reasonably well looked after, by five years old, and perhaps 40K miles can have lost a third or more of thier original quoted power.... though to be honest, most wont have had that even when new, as quoted ratings tend to be a tad 'optimistic', but even so; a dang good service can see a HUGE improvement in power, on a dyno, but even where the dyno figures suggest a more modest gain, on the road the difference feels markedly exagerated, as what you 'feel' through the seat of your pants is not strictly power, but power delivery, and a well tuned and fettled motor, making more power will also be much more 'crisp' and responsive and feel a lot more eager, giving the impression of a lot more power.

On a Rover V8, there is a LOT that can be done to regain that 'fettle' without resorting to hy-po cams or chip-kits or anything:

The main power robbers are stretched cam-chains, which retard the cam by anything up to 12 degrees; next worn cams, which rob lift from the valves as well as 'dwell', preventing you getting a full cylinder fill.

Next up are the rockers and rocker shafts, which wear terribly, and again rob lift..... and while you are poking about the valve train, you might as well look at the hydraulic lifters which, either get gummed up and dont self adjust, or wear, leaking oil, both scenarios tending to rob the valves of lift and hence the cylinders of a full fill.

First and easiest candidate to tackle is the cam chain and timing gears. Easy (ish) swap, and dirt cheap. Standard timing set is about £30 or so, and can transform a motor.

If you are in there, and have the dosh though, a duplex timing set, as sold by the popular V8 emporiums is stronger and less prone to stretch; doesn't give you any more power, but preserves what you find for longer.

If you have MORE dosh to chuck at it, and in my mind, probably more worth while than a hi-po cam, is a vernier timing set; this lets you adjust the cam timing, which means that as the chain stretches you can tweek the cam back to where it should be relative to the crank. Also means that you can better set the cam timing more accurately, and compensate for those sloppy OE tolerences a bit to get the best out of the stock cam.

The cam shaft itself, is actually the last item in the valve train I'd look at; OE item is about £50 if memory serves; Hi-Po versions are as much as three times that.

Swapping out the cam is probably the biggest bang for your buck, tuning over standard - wise, but when tuning gains come with losses, and the 3.9 cam is a pretty good one, and well suited to the Range Rover's size weight and anticipated use.

High-Torque cams dont do much better on the 3.9, though they do work wonders on older 3.5's, but then so would a 3.5 EFI or 3.9 cam!

Next 'upgrade' would be a Vitesse cam; the first SD1 road profile to better the power of the RR Cam, but the small gain in top end power is gained by a big sacrifile in low end grunt, and the 'hotter' profiles beyond that, into fast road, race and sprint cams, exacerbate teh shift in compromise.

PLUS to get the most out of such wild cams, you really need to do a lot more to the induction and exhaust side of a Rangie motor which cylinder head restricted via smaller valves, a lower compression ratio and more restrictive plumbing on both induction and exhaust side.

SO!

Next target is the lifters, which can be reconditioned, but cost and effort you may as well chuck them and replace.

And onto the rockers and shafts.

Tempting, when you lift them off the heads to elect simply to swap the shafts alone and keep the old rockers as that would remove half the slop in the assembly very cheaply; shafts are about £16 a pair, where rockers, of which there are 16 are about £60 a set.

As a quick and cheap 'hit', its better than nothing, but the new shafts will be worn more rapidly by the old rockers which will have swarf from the old shaft embedded in the bushes, and re-bushing is not a viable option, cheaper to swap out the rockers.

So, to get back robbed power, new rockers and shafts.

IF you are going for it, and have the dosh, though, I'd strongly advice checking out higher ratio rockers, or even light weight, low resistance aluminium roller rockers, preferably with a higher lift ratio.

Expensive; they are about £400 a set for the RV8, IF you can source a set, and that may seem an inordinate expense for the outlay, when you can get bigger numbers on the dyno from a hotter cam.........

However, H/R rockers modify the cam profile and without effecting the cam-timing or duration, open the valves further for a given cam lift. Effect is that the basic state of 'tune' isn't effected, and teh engine retains the same sort of 'charecter' by way of low down grunt and top end power, but you get mnore of it accross the range.

A very good way to get 'useable' power IF you are contemplating going 'beyond' standard, and doing so without compromising the engine's charecter...

You can also add a wilder cam afterwards and see even more effect from it.

Which is about as far as you can go without 'cracking' the motor wide open, and lifting the heads; but that is the next thing to look at.

IF you are going beyond standard; as said, the RR heads are the weak link in the chain. They are low compression, and small valved, and small ported.

This is good for low down torque, mid-range and ecconomy, but not so good for upper end power or higher power.

If you are going over standard, then to get the best out of a higher lift, and wilder timed cam, really you need better breathing to exploit it.

Meanwhile though, head off, and the standard valves and seats ground so they seal better will give improvement, and the very FIRST mod over standard that should be done is a head skim to imporve the compression ratio.... something around 10:1 seems to be about optimum for most road applications, where I believe that the standard RR figure is 9.5.

That half a point will make a lot of difference, but if you can push it to 10.5, better still, especially if you are doing any tweeking.

In fact, remembering those 'loose' tolerences, just making sure you actually have the standard 9.5:1 C/R is probably a good idea!

Anyway, if tuning beyond, you need better breathing, and the usual way of getting that is from a wilder cam, opening the valves earlier, furtehr and holding them open longer.

However, back to my reccomendation of high ratio rockers; standard RR cam I believe opens the valves 10mm, where the vitesse cam and wilder Hi-Po versions open them around 12mm.

A H/R rocker, will basically open the valves as far as a hi-po cam would, but with the loading on the valve train, and imparticular those sehf adjusting tappets being a lot lower, which means better reliability and better response.....

And as said, its a quick hit to get more breathing for a hi-po cam, without the expense of going to bigger valves, which is expensive, or stage cut heads which is even more so......

Which suggests that thier expense, though great MIGHT be quite ecconomical on an engine that you want to 'breath on' rather than tear down!

So, quick and cheap targets, in brief:-
  1. Timing Chain and gears
  2. Tappets
  3. Rockers and Shafts
  4. Cam Shaft
  5. Full service and 'Tune' with tip-top ignition components and carburation (injectors on an EFi)
Taking it to the next level:
  1. Vernier Timing Set & critical timing of cam-shaft
  2. Cylinder head overhaul & skim to raise Compression Ratio
  3. Hi ratio, possibly roller rockers
  4. Alternative cam-shaft
  5. Less restrictive exhaust
I dont rate chipping ECU's, and the 3.9's EFI is so simple I cant see you finding 20bhp from a revised fuel map. It doesn't comtrol the ignition, which is still essentially the old mechanical advance distributor of old, and there doesn't seem to be much by way of restriction in the fuel map to begin with, I mean it doesn't even have a rev limiter!

Anyway; plenty that can be tackled apart from the engine, and theres even more in the rest of teh car that can rob power from increased drag, starting with the state of the tyres, to the wheel bearings, the brakes, the tracking and alignment, gear-box, prob-shafts and all the joints and 'stuff' in the transmission, and 'silly' things like door seals, and bonnet shuts and stuff!

An awful lot of added 'oomph' can, all told, be found without spending huge amounts of money, or departing from factory specifications

In fact, with the sloppy tolerancing of the RV8, you can (he he!) find an awful lot MORE power than you are supposed to have, messing within the factory tolerences, but that's called 'blue-printing', and is a very expensive way of finding power, usually only done where competition regs forbid the use of stuff not specified my the original manufacturer; but a 'blu-print' 3.9 could make as much as 230-250bhp... ALL with standard parts fettled, machines, ground and lovingly assembled withing factory tolerences and service limits!

I know that the SD1 3.5EFi Vittesse was rated at the same as the RRC 3.9, about 185bhp, but competition blue-print motors were knocking out figures in that sort of order!

anyhow, grist to the mill; and areas of investigation if you want more poke, just remember the first rule of tuning, dont go looking for more than standard until you have made sure you have what you should hav eAS standard, other wise you aren't gaining anything, simply making up for a defacit some-where.
 
Wow, a lot of info there. Bloody good read. And thank you.
Going to stick with the 3.9 as this seems to be the most reliable block by the sounds of it. Not Looking for huge power gains, just a little more grunt low down.
I will be rebuild the engine before it goes in the RRC.
Now a full rebuild doesn't bother me as done it a few times before. But I do not know how to get low down torque. Have been told to use a rally cam as this is set to give low down power. and something about a lightened and balanced crank.

But then again, I as far as I know the lump I have in there already is the original with all original parts. Well aside from the induction kit, plugs leads, rotor and cap. Oh and the Double s exhaust and tubular manifolds. So would probably get quite a large power increase from the rebuild alone.

Going to be spending a few quid on it, new bearings, seals gaskets, rockers, valves, valve train etc etc.
People may say I'm mad but I love the car and intend to keep it a fair while, so I think it's worth it
 
Your no madder than me; I rebuilt the motor in my first Rangie:-
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A month after it was installed, the troll (now very X missis) buggered off with it and trashed it!

However!

When it comes to RV8 cams, the choices are myriad, and the descriptions and numbers bewildering;

The Piper 265 is described as a fast road / race cam, and the number, 265, denoting 265 degrees of 'duration' between the valve opening and closing, would be deemed quite 'hot'....

However the original Low comp carb motor's STANDARD cam had a 285 duration cam, which technically has a longer duration than the Piper 265, yet is described as a 'soft' cam.......

Reason is, that the Piper 265's shape is different (unsurprisingly!) valves open later, and close earlier, but the cam ramps them open further and faster and holds them wide open for longer, which is where we get into the technical talk of ramp rate and dwell angles, which are for the most part irrelevant, all we want to know is what works and what 'kind' of power curve to expect!

Rule of 'thumb' is that the hotter the cam, the more top end power you get, at the expense of low down power, and part throttle 'response' and clean running. The cam 'duration' gives a rough idea of how hot a cam is, becouse the longer the valve is open, all else being equal or near enough, more cylinder filling time it offers.

Not a strict rule, as said, Low Comp RR cam is longer duration than many a sprint cam, but works more often than it dont.

Now, I looked at a LOT of tuning options and all the cam-specs I could when rebuilding that engine; and the bottom line was I went for a new stock bump-stick.

And, to be honest, I would advise, on a 3.9, to use the stock cam as your bench mark; as said, its very well suited to the application by way of the charecter it offers, and the gain from an aftermarket 'high-torque' or '4x4' profile on THAT engine is small for the outlay, while moving to hotter profiles, such as a 'rally' or fast road profile, will give gains in mid and top end, but at the expense of bottom end power, which is the 3.9's forte.... its a motor that makes 75% of its available torque at or near tick-over, and provides the sort of thrust that makes such a big heavy barn door sized vehcile 'hustle' off the line, or upp a hill, or 'pootle' along a green lane on a wiff of throttle when others, especially diesel jokeys with thier huge resrves of imaginary 'low down torque' are making motors labour or scream!

As said, with a bit of careful building, and from a complete tear down you have a clean slate, you should be able to get first the original 'quoted' power of 185bhp, which I can tell you catagorically can be as much as 30% up on a tired old motor like mine, which I reckon is struggling to grunt out much over 120 at the moment.

Next, WITHOUT going wild on mods, you should be able to push that up, respectably towards or over the 200 mark, and keep the motors essential nature and loverly elastic band torque curve.

First of all the heads; a mild porting job; you dont want to go over sized on the valves or ports, as the smaller holes give higher flow velocities at plow engine speeds and smaller throttle openings, which is good for bottom end power and 'driveability'.

But, the ports can benefit from being 'cleaned up' and the port and combustion chamber volumes 'balenced' so that the air speeds through the ports are all the same and the compression ratio in each cylinder is likewise the same.

Next, compression ratio; stock figure is 9.5:1, and as said, first job is to make sure it is, second to increase that by as much as you dare!

Personally, as I run on LPG I'd optimise for gas and be a bit braver, and head for something in the order of 11:1, as LPG can 'stand' it having a higher octane rating than 95RON unleaded. would probably mean that I'd need to use an ignition advance module to exploit it, and be able to run on regular petrol without pinking, and I'd probably have to ritchen up the petrol mixture to add some margin for safety robbing me of petrol ecconomy and power, but hoping to use LPG more than FPF, pro's should win for me..... but I dont know if you intend gassing it.

Block, pistons, rods and crank:

When doing a 'built' engine, always good to make the bottom end as togh as you can; first to put as much reliability and life into it as you can, and second so it is best able to stand any extra strain from added power you might find elsewhere.

Lightening cranks and flywheels used to be the 'done thing', and I suppose people do still do it.

On a Range Rover though, advantages of a lightened crank are minimal, and if you have an auto transmission you dont actually have a flywheel to lighten, and if you DID try lightening the rotary mass or moment of inertia of the bottom end, that ruddy drum of oil called a torque converter would pretty much negate any benefit.

On a lighter car, a lightweight crank & flywheel can have a really big effect on the way the car resopnds to the throttle and accelerates, as the lower reciprocating moment of inertia saps less of the available power to accelerate it, but a Range Rover weighs nearly five times what a mini or old M2" escort did, which rather masks the advantage, AND that added mass is there for a reason on a Rangie, its there to damp drive line 'shunt' as you change loading especially between gear changes, where all the mass in the car has a much begger effect on the drine train.

So, I'd not be inclined to 'mess' too much with the crank, though again, worth getting one 'prepared' by way of stress relieved after grinding to make sure that there are no discontinuities in the casting or from machining / grinding that might weaken it.... speed shop you entrust it too, would probably do that as part of a 'stage 1' lighten and balence job, rather than a full race job taking half the counterweights off and wedging them.

Con-Rods! Stock rods are pretty tough, but they are heavy, but then race rods are effoff expensive. Like the crank and head, my advice would be to stick to the stockers, but 'prep' them; again, be down to a speed-shop and what they suggest and reccomend, but basically, you want them balenced end over end and against each other, then stress relieved by shot peening to remove discontinuityies.

Seem to recall that the big end bolts are an interference fit in the rod, and I'd want new studs in there, before balencing.

Block; derigeur these days to go for relinering rather than re-boring, and, for the bigger bore motors top hat liners.

I'd think long and hard about that one, as top hat liners are an expensive way to go, but do make the motor bullet-proof, on that side of things, and if your bores are worn far enough that you cant get away with over size rings to accomodate the rebore and need over sized pistons, part of the added cost of relinering to standard size, can be clawed back by not having to shell out for new slugs......

Pistons; again, prepped standard slugs; a little skirt work cant hurt, but probably not really worth the effort unless you are seriousely tuning the motor; what is worth while though is prepping the top end. Stock pistons have a 'tin-can' dish profile; and when built up, tolerences can see them sitting at different heights beneath the block deck at TDC, giving different compression ratios.

That rim around the piston also does a thing called 'squish' which is that when it gets close to tdc, the small clerence between the piston and head 'squishes' the charge in that gap into the combustion chamber, causing turbulance that aids combustion mixing.

Process of 'deck-heighting' taking a little metal off the block so that the pistons all protrude slightly, then machining them flush to the new block height is a really good thing to do.

But having done so, the pistons need the dish chamber volumes balencing, as the combustion chamber volumes to correct the compression ratio.

On which topic, worth a thought about what gaskets to use, and for me, the tin-plate gaskets are far better, particularly on a detail built motor where the tolerences are all more critically applied, than the squashy thick composite versions, and if you are setting the motor up to run sqush, you REALLY dont want that added gap between the slugs and head robbing you of the effect.

But, you need to be sure that you set the combustion chamber volumes and piston dish volumes for the compression ratio you want, with the head gaskets you intend to use.

OK! So, so far, pretty standard practices for a built engine, and nothing drastically OTT or wild.

Vernier Timing set: If you have had the block deck-heighted, and gone to that level of detail in building the bottom end, then this really is pretty much essential, to get the cam timing set to optimum.

On an OHC engine, it would be even more so; as the cam chain round between the crank and the timing gear, which, having deck heighted the block would be closer together, meaning that the run on one side of the chain would be shorter, adjusting cam timing.

On an OHV engine, not so critical, but you need to be aware of it when you come to look at the rest of the valve train, becouse the push-rods and tappets are going to be that tad longer than needed.

Lifters SHOULD take up that difference, but if you are building a V8 critically, worth doing it all to the same level of diligence and shimming the tappets to get the right pre-load on them all.

On which topic, theres a whole load of different lifters available, and it was the early lifters which demanded that lazy long duration cam, as they simply werne't that effective! They also had a tendancy to 'jam' in thier guides, and limited the rev cieling to about 5K.

The stock lifters in the 3.9, though, are not bad; they are lighter and more effective than the earlier versions, and are 'good enough' for what you can get a stock 3.9 to rev to...... in my case, I've only been brave enough to nudge 6K at idle, and not got it much over 5 1/2 on load, which is a lot more than the 5K and lifter jam people used to predict, though they probably are right that for 'sustained' use over 5K you really need a more advanced valve train.

So following the philosophy of a critical built 'standard' engine, they'd be my first choice, as siad critically shimmed for pre-load, BUT, there is a light weight lifter in the Rover parts catalogue that was used in the Morgan & TVR big bore engines, that is reckoned to be good for 7,500rpm reliably, and if not too inordinately expensive might tempt me.

Again, stock push-rods are pretty good, they dont have any fancy forms in them, so theres not much to say about them, and as they are drawn steel not cast, little that can be done or worth doing by way of lightening or peening or anything.

Only real option here would be to swap them out for hi-po versions in lightweight alloy or carbon-fibre; but for the expense, and gain, unless going to high ratio roller rockers, probably not worth the doing, and even then, high ratio rockers lower the rod loading, so even then not particularly essential on 'soft' cam.

Which brings us to those rockers, and having vaunted the benefits of High ratio and roller items, I wont again, except to say that they do do a good job, and gibe you the added lift, without making the rest of the valve train, by way of lifters and push-rods work any harder, as they get to move the smaller distance of the softer cam profile.

If I didn't use Hi-Ratio rollers, then it would be down to the standard items, which I have to say aren't bad, and are actually a high-ratio rocker; I cant remember if they have a 1.25 or 1.33:1 'advantage' at the valve over the cam, but they do shove the valve further than the cam shoved the rocker, so when I have been talking about Hi-Ratio roller rockers, I probably ought to have clarified that by saying 'Higher' ratio Hi-Ratio rockers... but you get the gist!

Stock rockers are light weight aluminium with reletively short arms and reletively large shaft. So they tilt a greater angle for the same amount of lift, but they dont have a very big radius in either direction, so dont have a large moment of inertia..... in short, for stock rockers they are pretty 'neat', and hard to beat....

There's not much then to be gained from trying to lighten of balence them, though they do benefit from being peened to stress relieve them, as they can craze and crack around the push-rod cups.

But do make sure you get GENUINE ali rockers, if you go for standard items; the common 'pattern' parts are I think steel and weight almost twice as much, which is not good on a critical build.

And that is pretty much it!

Might seem pretty 'tame' but time and again, I've proved and re-proved to myself that the closer to stock you stay the more useful the engine tends to be; giving modest peak power, but usualy a heck of a lot more 'useable' power, by which I mean power in the low and mid range or at part throttle, where and when you need it; so you get more power more often, which means a faster car!

Also tends to be a darn sight more reliable and an awful lot less hassle to set up!

Essentially a semi-blue-print engine, built to pretty much standard specs with standard parts, by way of cam and valve train, simply put together with a very high level of attension to detail.


Essential elements in there are:-
  • Compression ratio check / increase
  • Standard Cam, to maintain basic engine 'charecter'.
  • Vernier Timing Set to allow critical timing of the cam at build and during service
  • Critical assemblty of ALL components, with particular attension to lifter pre-load shimming
Optional elements in there are:-
  • Balenced & Stress Relieved Crank
  • Balenced & Peened Con-Rods
  • 'Prepped' block by way of relinering / re-boring
  • Deck-Heighting of pistons & block
  • Balencing of combustion chamber volumes in head & piston dish
  • 'Mild' porting & balencing of port volumes in head
  • Possible use of TVR lifters
  • Possible use of Hirer Ratio Rockers
  • Possible use of light weight push-rods
Taking it to another level:-
  • Bgger Valves
  • Hotter Cam profile
But at that point you are going beyond finding everything you might have as standard and shifting the compromises, so you'll start gaining top end power at the expense of bottom end and driveability, and giving yourself more work to set the engine up.
 
Thanks for that teflon. That lump looks the dogs dangly bits.
Not sure I'll be doing a full blue-print job, As alot of what you said went straight over me head lol. But I will be fitting a lot of new parts, Valve train, bearings, seals, gaskets etc. Polish the ports etc.
 
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