2.5 DSE Engine Diagnostic Fault finding help (Nano Evo2)

eloteq · Mar 21, 2012

Hi guys. I've got problems with my Engine on the P38A 2.5DSE 1999. So here goes for the long post..... sorry......:yawn:

Having done lots of searching & fixed many things thanks to this forums members comments & posts, I finally need some help.

I bought the RR 2.5 DSE several weeks ago & had cold start issues & poor performance (not pulling) etc. So far I've change Glow PLugs (which improved cold start), changed the MAS (as I found this unplugged), changed oil, filters, fuel/Air filters, Leak off pipes, new vaccum pipes etc ...... and more. I got slight oil burning smell when running but found breather on Cam cover sucking loads into intake - seems like common prob.:blah:

The cheap Fleebay MAS packed in after 1 week (getting refund), Engine running hit & miss; somedays great, other-days no power. On a good day it shifts..

Sometimes I switch on & get the typical GEARBOX FAULT with 2000 rpm; cycle ignition & ok again. I have new battery, cleaned engine bay earths & some connectors.

I bought Nanocom Evolution2 to work faults out but still left bermused. The EDC manual says that the engine flywheel sensor crank speed rpm & injector 4 Needle lift Sensor RPM should be pretty much the same. My data shows that the needle lift sensor RPM is not moving but fixed at 3753.75, as opposed to the crank RMP 728.00 (which increase with speed). I thought I'd found problem & ordered/fitted new Inj4 Needle lift sensor (£180 from Island 4x4); but still got same results - no movement in RPM on LIft Sensor data.. I'm interested to find out what other peoples data says on their rig using the Nano2 EDC. I've checked cabling, but everything looks ok. Is it my ECU???, is it a problem with Nano2???

I've posted pics of data below.

Also, (before clearing) when I first plugged Nano2 in I read the faults:

NANOCOM - EDC.APP - EDC faults file

AIR FLOW SENSOR INVALID VALUE METER INVALID VALUE
Type: TOO LOW,LOGGED,CURRENT,INTERMITTENT
RPM = 32
WATER TEMP = 83
OCCURRANCE = 15
---
ENGINE IMMOBILISER LINK FAULT
Type: TOO HIGH,TOO LOW,HIGH CIRCUIT,LOGGED,CURRENT,INTERMITTENT
RPM = 32
WATER TEMP = 206
OCCURRANCE = 15
---
CONTROL UNIT INTERNAL FAULT
Type: INVALID FAULT,LOGGED,INTERMITTENT
RPM = 0
WATER TEMP = 74
OCCURRANCE = 9
---
BOOST PRESSURE INVALID VALUE
Type: INVALID FAULT,MAJOR FAULT,LOGGED,INTERMITTENT
RPM = 0
INJ. FLOW = 0
OCCURRANCE = 9

After clearing faults initially I'm now constantly getting:-

NANOCOM - EDC.APP - EDC faults file

INVALID FAULT
Type: INVALID FAULT,LOGGED,INTERMITTENT
RPM = 33
UNKNOWN = 89
OCCURRANCE = 13
---
ENGINE IMMOBILISER LINK FAULT
Type: TOO HIGH,TOO LOW,HIGH CIRCUIT,LOGGED,CURRENT,INTERMITTENT
RPM = 33
WATER TEMP = 210
OCCURRANCE = 13
---

I've had no immobiliser problems ever, so dont know what this faut means. So, is it my ECU, wiring harness.....>?/

I get unknow faults on EAS & Engine ECU.

Any help would be much appreciated.

eloteq · Mar 22, 2012

Just noticed in my own pics that the air temperature is -38.88, so i think my MAS still playing up. I cleaned the old one using MAplin electrical spray Isopropyl Alcohol & seemed to work.

This doesn't explain other probs though..

Clarky130 · Mar 22, 2012

Wow... Multiple strange issues on multiple (seemingly unrelated) sensors... Look for what is common to all of them... The engine earth. I'd start there, and just verify and eliminate it as a cause.

I really don't know what it is about British cars and engine earths, but if I had a quid for every time I've traced seemingly random faults to bad engine earthing, I'd be a rich man!!

Start there before delving into anything more complicated. Not sure exactly where it is, but others here far more knowledgeable than me will point you in the right direction.

eloteq · Mar 22, 2012

Cheers Clarky, Yeah, i cleaned earth on engine & body. I think I'm gonna get new earth strap incase corroded in crimp terminals.

I checked inside ECU for water damage a saw what appears to be a superchip fitted. I wonder if this would interfere or change data from normal during diagnostics?

I found a discolored joint by big connector so touched up with solder. I nearly fooked the thing up. I removed the chip to take closer look... and in doing so bent the pins on base. I straightened them up only to break three. :drama::hurt::screaming_bug_eye_f I soldered new connections to chip & base to fix for now - it still runs - thank god.

Motto is - if it aint broke don't touch - few. :5bsmash::5bbanghead:

Datatek · Mar 22, 2012

eloteq said:
Hi guys. I've got problems with my Engine on the P38A 2.5DSE 1999. So here goes for the long post..... sorry......:yawn:

Having done lots of searching & fixed many things thanks to this forums members comments & posts, I finally need some help.

I bought the RR 2.5 DSE several weeks ago & had cold start issues & poor performance (not pulling) etc. So far I've change Glow PLugs (which improved cold start), changed the MAS (as I found this unplugged), changed oil, filters, fuel/Air filters, Leak off pipes, new vaccum pipes etc ...... and more. I got slight oil burning smell when running but found breather on Cam cover sucking loads into intake - seems like common prob.:blah:

The cheap Fleebay MAS packed in after 1 week (getting refund), Engine running hit & miss; somedays great, other-days no power. On a good day it shifts..

Sometimes I switch on & get the typical GEARBOX FAULT with 2000 rpm; cycle ignition & ok again. I have new battery, cleaned engine bay earths & some connectors.

I bought Nanocom Evolution2 to work faults out but still left bermused. The EDC manual says that the engine flywheel sensor crank speed rpm & injector 4 Needle lift Sensor RPM should be pretty much the same. My data shows that the needle lift sensor RPM is not moving but fixed at 3753.75, as opposed to the crank RMP 728.00 (which increase with speed). I thought I'd found problem & ordered/fitted new Inj4 Needle lift sensor (£180 from Island 4x4); but still got same results - no movement in RPM on LIft Sensor data.. I'm interested to find out what other peoples data says on their rig using the Nano2 EDC. I've checked cabling, but everything looks ok. Is it my ECU???, is it a problem with Nano2???

I've posted pics of data below.

Also, (before clearing) when I first plugged Nano2 in I read the faults:

NANOCOM - EDC.APP - EDC faults file

AIR FLOW SENSOR INVALID VALUE METER INVALID VALUE
Type: TOO LOW,LOGGED,CURRENT,INTERMITTENT
RPM = 32
WATER TEMP = 83
OCCURRANCE = 15
---
ENGINE IMMOBILISER LINK FAULT
Type: TOO HIGH,TOO LOW,HIGH CIRCUIT,LOGGED,CURRENT,INTERMITTENT
RPM = 32
WATER TEMP = 206
OCCURRANCE = 15
---
CONTROL UNIT INTERNAL FAULT
Type: INVALID FAULT,LOGGED,INTERMITTENT
RPM = 0
WATER TEMP = 74
OCCURRANCE = 9
---
BOOST PRESSURE INVALID VALUE
Type: INVALID FAULT,MAJOR FAULT,LOGGED,INTERMITTENT
RPM = 0
INJ. FLOW = 0
OCCURRANCE = 9

After clearing faults initially I'm now constantly getting:-

NANOCOM - EDC.APP - EDC faults file

INVALID FAULT
Type: INVALID FAULT,LOGGED,INTERMITTENT
RPM = 33
UNKNOWN = 89
OCCURRANCE = 13
---
ENGINE IMMOBILISER LINK FAULT
Type: TOO HIGH,TOO LOW,HIGH CIRCUIT,LOGGED,CURRENT,INTERMITTENT
RPM = 33
WATER TEMP = 210
OCCURRANCE = 13
---

I've had no immobiliser problems ever, so dont know what this faut means. So, is it my ECU, wiring harness.....>?/

I get unknow faults on EAS & Engine ECU.

Any help would be much appreciated.

First off sort the MAF then see what you have got. Chipping the ECU can cause all sorts of problems so there is no knowing. The gearbox fault message suggests low volts or an alternator problem. This could account for some of the other faults.
My first step after the MAF would be to check the alternator output, then onto the connections, fuse box etc. Also check the cables for volt drop as they are known to corrode inside the sleeving.
The "Invalid" faults can be produced when cranking due to low battery voltage, so a load test on the battery would not be amiss.

jerrytlr · Mar 22, 2012

I am 100% sure that the needle rpm and engine rpm values were always within about 25rpm of each other (difference most likely due to the measurement being taken at slightly different times - I don't think the actual engine rpm is different ;-) ) when read using the Nanocom and from memory also when Keith (Datatek) plugged his MSV in too.

So, there is a problem somewhere if you are not getting this .... you've replaced the injector, so I'm guessing it must be a connector or wiring issue.

Cheers

Jerry

jerrytlr · Mar 22, 2012

OK I've just been out to check it (since it's lunchtime!) and, lo and behold, I get a needle lift reading of.... 3753.75 when the engine rpm is 750. And it doesn't change....

I am as sure as I can be that I didn't get this before...

So either eloteq and I have the same issue (mine is starting and running fine at the moment) or there is a problem with the Nanocom firmware. I notice there is a new version of the firmware available from 13th March (1.07) I will install that and see if it makes any difference.

If anybody else could quickly check their Nanocom (EDC version), that might help us figure out what is going on!

Cheers,

Jerry

eloteq · Mar 22, 2012

jerrytlr said:
OK I've just been out to check it (since it's lunchtime!) and, lo and behold, I get a needle lift reading of.... 3753.75 when the engine rpm is 750. And it doesn't change....

I am as sure as I can be that I didn't get this before...

So either eloteq and I have the same issue (mine is starting and running fine at the moment) or there is a problem with the Nanocom firmware. I notice there is a new version of the firmware available from 13th March (1.07) I will install that and see if it makes any difference.

If anybody else could quickly check their Nanocom (EDC version), that might help us figure out what is going on!

Cheers,

Jerry

Hi jerry my version is latest 1.07. Having only just got it I have no data to compare it to. it's a shame to spend money on lift sensor when prob one in ok.

I will start working down list of suggestions. Let's hope.

jerrytlr · Mar 22, 2012

Hi, just upgraded mine and it makes no difference.. still showing 3753.75, as is yours.

Unfortunately we are now in that horrible situation where one is not sure if the diagnostic tool or the thing being tested is at fault!

If anybody else with the P38 EDC Nanocom could try theirs out, it would be v. helpful

Also - thinking about it a bit more - if valid values for timing advance are being received, surely the Inj 4 must be working OK??

Cheers

Jerry

Datatek · Mar 22, 2012

jerrytlr said:
I am 100% sure that the needle rpm and engine rpm values were always within about 25rpm of each other (difference most likely due to the measurement being taken at slightly different times - I don't think the actual engine rpm is different ;-) ) when read using the Nanocom and from memory also when Keith (Datatek) plugged his MSV in too.

So, there is a problem somewhere if you are not getting this .... you've replaced the injector, so I'm guessing it must be a connector or wiring issue.

Cheers

Jerry

If you haven't resolved this by the weekend, I'll fire up the faultmate and have a look. The readings from the crank sensor and needle lift sensor should be failrly close to one another.

SpudH · Mar 22, 2012

ignore the -38.88, all the late models show that, the engine no longer has an air intake temp sensor, it was replaced by the MAF

jerrytlr · Mar 22, 2012

Datatek said:
If you haven't resolved this by the weekend, I'll fire up the faultmate and have a look. The readings from the crank sensor and needle lift sensor should be failrly close to one another.

Thanks Keith would be great if you could

Cheers

Jerry

eloteq · Mar 22, 2012

SpudH said:
ignore the -38.88, all the late models show that, the engine no longer has an air intake temp sensor, it was replaced by the MAF

Well at least something is right maybe? I was going to say that the MAS would be replaced but maybe ok now; my wife just said car running like **** today - Kangaroo Diesel.... so definitely changing MAS.

As for Nano Evo2 I'm not sure of readings as I have no comparison data. If others have a Nano EDC & 2.5 DSE, then post your ECU data; i think it would be good for checking data against others!

In the mean time, I've emailed BBS support with my data results & files just to check all is ok. Will keep you posted.

Datatek · Mar 25, 2012

jerrytlr said:
Thanks Keith would be great if you could

Cheers

Jerry

Needle lift sensor and crank sensor are within 28 rpm of one another at all times at a steady throttle opening, they are the same varying only when the throttle is blipped or the aircon cuts in.

jerrytlr · Mar 25, 2012

Thanks keith - I am suspecting a nanocom issue here so better wait and see what bbs say - in the meantime if there are any other edc nanocom owners out there who could see what their rpm figures are that would be great.

Cheers

Jerry

eloteq · Mar 25, 2012

yes, thanks Keith for info & pics.

BBS emailed me & said that they would look into the needle list sensor issue. As for my other faults shown they could not comment (they only interpret codes) - & only to add that the vehicle could generate faults through system noise or other unknowns.

I have the MAF/MAS unplugged at the moment & the rangie seems to be running ok. I'm just looking for original part supplier now?

I've removed & cleaned all earth points/leads in the engine bay & also soldered every connection to prevent/rule out corrosion within crimps; I have no further Gearbox Fault messages yet. I've also removed & stripped out fuse box, cleaned connections & swapped relays etc., but no issues found.

As for the Engine - I still have the error code on ECU regarding "Immobiliser Link Fault". I've had no issues with alarm or Immobiliser & the correct code fro, the BECM is displayed, so I'm really not sure what this is. I did notice when the Nanocom Evolotion was connected, having blipped the revs, I see the EDC alarm status flick between High & low.

CHeers Everyone for help - Matt :tea: :clap2:

jerrytlr · Mar 26, 2012

Matt my alarm status flicks from high to low as well - not sure if it is supposed to or not!

Btw did you let bbs know that i have the odd needle rpm reading as well? I have not contacted them directly yet

Cheers

Jerry

eloteq · Mar 26, 2012

Hi Jerry, Yes I stated that I'd posted my faults on this forum (provided Link), and stated other member had same results. The email I sent them was:-

"I posted my results on Landyzone forum & another member checked on his vehicle & it was same as mine. I wondered if it was a firmware error or something else. I've attached EDC inputs SWITCH file........."

As for for the high/low on alarm - i'm not sure what it means. I hope I'm not looking for thing - but how would we know if it was Evo 2 error?????? only by us comparing results. I have other error code.

BBS replied "We wil certainly look into the issue reported with the Needle lift sensor
but with regards the faults we are unable to give further information on
these as we can only interpret codes from given details from the ecu
manufacturer and some codes are generated in vehicles by system noise or
other factors that have no effect on the actual running of the vehicle. As
you can imagine, without diagnostic equipment the majority of vehicle
owners never even know there is a fault logged when the vehicle is running
as it should."

So I believe it's prob firmaware - lets see what happens.

cheers Matt

eloteq · Mar 26, 2012

Hey Guys - BBS have a new forum for Nanocom - I've just signed up

Nanocom BBS

jerrytlr · May 6, 2012

Hi eloteq - did you ever get a resolution from Nanocom to this needle lift rpm issue?

Cheers,

Jerry

2.5 DSE Engine Diagnostic Fault finding help (Nano Evo2)

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