P38A 2.5 Diesel - What Head Gasket

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wammers said:
Can't see how it's an heat shield. But it is a gas seal. Used to be annealed and refitted in the days of yore.
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Agree entirely, never made any sense to me! Still, seems to be what vw, Volvo and Mercedes call them as well as Bosch so it's what they're always sold as. Since the Rover is already suffering from these leaking (you can see bubbles if there is any liquid around the injector seats - first noticed as one of the leak off pipes is leaking), I'll definitely be taking all six injectors out and changing them, but I think no new injector nozzles for the moment.

Cheers for the tip on island4x4. Is it worth doing the sprockets when changing the timing chain if I do it, most kits don't seem to include them but if they're worn they'll accelerate chain wear like worn chain rings on a bicycle surely?

Rich
 
RAW111111 said:
Agree entirely, never made any sense to me! Still, seems to be what vw, Volvo and Mercedes call them as well as Bosch so it's what they're always sold as. Since the Rover is already suffering from these leaking (you can see bubbles if there is any liquid around the injector seats - first noticed as one of the leak off pipes is leaking), I'll definitely be taking all six injectors out and changing them, but I think no new injector nozzles for the moment.

Cheers for the tip on island4x4. Is it worth doing the sprockets when changing the timing chain if I do it, most kits don't seem to include them but if they're worn they'll accelerate chain wear like worn chain rings on a bicycle surely?

Rich
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Yes but the only one that really shows much wear or causes problems is the crank sprocket, they are like hobby horse shit to get hold of. You won't get one from Landrover best to try BMW or Vauxhall. BMW part number is 11 21 2 243 401.
 
Right, Bits have arrived, few days off uni, so I've set to...

And hit a stalling point :|

Anyone ever experienced the steel cooling pipe to the heater matrix pipes being seized onto the front of the head. Makes removing the heat shield impossible and thus the exhaust manifold etc :| Any ideas?

Rich
 
RAW111111 said:
Right, Bits have arrived, few days off uni, so I've set to...

And hit a stalling point :|

Anyone ever experienced the steel cooling pipe to the heater matrix pipes being seized onto the front of the head. Makes removing the heat shield impossible and thus the exhaust manifold etc :| Any ideas?

Rich
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It just pushes into the timing case sealed by an o'ring and is retained by a bolt. Should be easy to free off.
 
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Was corroded in due to steel into an alloy head - came out eventually with a bit more force than I'd like to have had to use, but it seems to have survived.

Ta
 
RAW111111 said:
Was corroded in due to steel into an alloy head - came out eventually with a bit more force than I'd like to have had to use, but it seems to have survived.

Ta
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It doesn't go in the head it goes into the front timing cover below the thermostat which does go in the head.. Clean it up treat it and paint it ready for replacement you really don't want to be buying a new one at Land rovers prices.
 
Head's off. Some of the head bolts were very rusty, not sure why. Headgasket had not obviously failed but the cylinder head is beyond economic repair :| Looking for a new one.

Richard
 
wammers said:
In which way is it beyond repair is it badly pitted?
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It's got huge cracks in it in three cylinders, running all the way from the pre-chambers to the valves and between the valves. It's a wonder the valve seats havn't moved to be honest! In addition it also needs both top hose and heater matrix outlets replacing due to corrosion.

My friendly machinist agreed with my conclusion, saying it actually could be welded and have new seats put in, but the cost would be close to £500 by the time we added all the work up. I'm getting some photos sent of a couple a breaker has that I might be able to collect this weekend for <£150 so even when refreshed and pressure tested they'd still be c£200, making spending £500 on the one we have not economic.

Rich
 
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RAW111111 said:
It's got huge cracks in it in three cylinders, running all the way from the pre-chambers to the valves and between the valves. It's a wonder the valve seats havn't moved to be honest! In addition it also needs both top hose and heater matrix outlets replacing due to corrosion.

My friendly machinist agreed with my conclusion, saying it actually could be welded and have new seats put in, but the cost would be close to £500 by the time we added all the work up. I'm getting some photos sent of a couple a breaker has that I might be able to collect this weekend for <£150 so even when refreshed and pressure tested they'd still be c£200, making spending £500 on the one we have not economic.

Rich
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If it's cracked that badly it is not repairable and it would be silly to try.
 
as above that head is beyond repair, a second hand head is best as long as no cracks are visible i wouldnt bother getting it tested apart from a straight edge
 
Grrrrrr said:
Didn't some of the Omegas have the same engine? Might be cheaper than a Rangie head?
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Depends which head he needs. Early ones with alloy manifolds cannot be used with plastic manifolds. Mid production ones with alloy manifolds have stud positions for plastic manifolds but will need drilling and taping and longer studs fitting. !998 and on EGR with plastic manifolds can be modded to take alloy units.
 
Buy the newest you can find, those from 1998 and newer have steel inserts between valves to prevent cracking.
 
Weak point on all diesels with indirect injection is between intake and exhaust valves, all of them crack there(big temperature difference). The newer ones with those steel inserts does not crack there, almost always only a head gasket/lifted head is a problem.
 
my experience with VW and Peugeot IDI engines it's normally the difference in expansion coefficient between the prechambers and the alloy heads that seems to be the starting point for cracks, with between the valve seats being nearly as common. The head I removed yesterday seems to be a similar situation.

I've been sent photos of two different options which I'll go and collect one of tomorrow, -'d maybe pick up one or two other bits from the same guy at the same time. Both heads appear to be crack free from the close ups I've been sent so I'm asking what year and what manifold type the engines were to narrow things down a little but I'll make a final choice when I can have a proper look at them up close.

Also managed to get a mate who's a Landy fan and series III owner to come and give me a hand screwing it back together next Saturday in return do a lift to the landy show at stonleigh next Sunday while his series is off the road.

Will post photos of new and old heads on Monday.

Rich
 
So unfortunately the weather today was a little inclement for photography while i was working, but the replacement head is off being tested and prepped for refitting. I've had to order a new injector socket as mine is too thick to fit between the injectors and the head on this engine, so the machinist is removing them for me and i will refit. likewise he's also going to do the removing and refitting of the valves for me as my compressor doesnt have enough reach.

Rich
 
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