05 TD4 juddering when accelerating and occasional lumpy idle

Hi everyone, new member here so be gentle please.

Been lurking for a while and picked up some very useful advice/tips from you guys, so thanks for that.

My 05 TD4 Auto (88k on the clock) has performed flawlessly for the last 3 years, can't fault it. But since half way down the motorway on Sunday it's been giving me grief. When driving and I initially/lightly press the throttle, everything is fine, when I press a little bit more the car judders, then when pressing more, its fine. this can happen at 30mph around town or when cruising on the motorway at 70mph, when the accelerator is at a certain point it judders, if I keep it at that point it will continue to judder till I put my foot down or coast. This also happens when reversing too. Also occasionally, idling will be very lumpy and the whole car shakes but this is intermittent and not all the time.

About 1000 miles ago in July I did the EGR bypass, replaced the crankcase filter, added a bottle of Wynn's and cleaned out the inlet manifold. I can't see it being any of these though as everything has been fine before Sunday. I put in another bottle of Wynn's in half a tank of fuel a few days ago to see if that helps but no joy. Air filter is clean(ish).

I'm wondering if it's the fuel filter/pump but then if it was I would have thought the juddering would be more consistent?. Maybe the MAF?

Hopefully I've included enough info to help diagnose, anyone got any ideas? I tried to search the forum but my car's symptoms don't seem to match with anyone else's.

Cheers.

When was the fluid last changed in the auto-box?

Not sure, its been serviced at Land Rover up until this year but the service book doesn't say if the fluid has been changed in past major services.

But idling in neutral is lumpy sometimes so this wouldn't have anything to do with the auto box would it?

My wife who also drives the car just said she doesn't think it does it (juddering when driving) as much when driving in semi auto.

The lumpy idling is quite possibly a symptom of a different fault.

You have described all the characteristics of an auto-box needing a fluid change. Slight, quivery sort of vibration as if the box wanted to change down but wasn't sure, especially on a gentle incline. More (or less) acceleration and the box smoothens out.

I had this for a few weeks and checked everything I could think of, and then thought why not try a fluid change a bit early as it was then on 100K

A main LR dealer screwed up the 60K fluid change by putting in the wrong fluid or not checking the level correctly, which was obvious within 10 miles. They re-did the fluid change but wouldn't tell me exactly what had taken place - they blamed an apprentice.

Immediately after I changed the fluid myself the judder all but disappeared , after 3 or 4 days it was gone completely and has not returned. That was 7K miles ago.

S.

Ok Singvogel thanks for the advice, I will look into changing it when I find out how to do it.

BiggG said:

Ok Singvogel thanks for the advice, I will look into changing it when I find out how to do it.

Click to expand...

Here's a link to my write up of how I changed the fluid myself.

It's important that you correctly identify the various bolts to remove as if you remove one from the back of the box mistakenly thinking it is the drain plug - you lose reverse gear.

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/jatco-fluid-change-success-190451.html

Good luck.

Singvogel.

Thanks for the link. I'll be buying a gallon of Carlube ATF-U off ebay tonight.

One other thing though. I thought i'd check everything over from when I removed the inlet manifold the other month. I then noticed a fair amount of oil that had leaked out of the round left hand inlet port. I have checked the gasket which seems to be leaking but looks fine and the bolts that hold the manifold where tight. the oil seems to be all round where one of the injectors is located. Would this cause an issue?

Picture attached, this is not my engine its just to illustrate.

Singvogel said:

The lumpy idling is quite possibly a symptom of a different fault.

You have described all the characteristics of an auto-box needing a fluid change. Slight, quivery sort of vibration as if the box wanted to change down but wasn't sure, especially on a gentle incline. More (or less) acceleration and the box smoothens out.

I had this for a few weeks and checked everything I could think of, and then thought why not try a fluid change a bit early as it was then on 100K

A main LR dealer screwed up the 60K fluid change by putting in the wrong fluid or not checking the level correctly, which was obvious within 10 miles. They re-did the fluid change but wouldn't tell me exactly what had taken place - they blamed an apprentice.

Immediately after I changed the fluid myself the judder all but disappeared , after 3 or 4 days it was gone completely and has not returned. That was 7K miles ago.

S.

Click to expand...

i had this same judder today going up a gentle hill , fulid change it is

BiggG said:

Thanks for the link. I'll be buying a gallon of Carlube ATF-U off ebay tonight.

One other thing though. I thought i'd check everything over from when I removed the inlet manifold the other month. I then noticed a fair amount of oil that had leaked out of the round left hand inlet port. I have checked the gasket which seems to be leaking but looks fine and the bolts that hold the manifold where tight. the oil seems to be all round where one of the injectors is located. Would this cause an issue?

Picture attached, this is not my engine its just to illustrate.

Click to expand...

it could cause the lumpy idle mate

Hi,
I have recently experienced this intermittently, and it developed into me braking down a couple of weeks ago.
It was easy to find, it was the fuel rail sensor plug corroded.
I cleaned it up temporarily while I got and fitted a new modified harness plug and sensor.
Took me 45 mins all in!
Worth a check!

Den

Thanks for advise, will check the Fuel rail sensor plug.

Will also sort out the inlet manifold gaskets, maybe buy some new ones even though the existing ones look fine.

Bit of an update. Fuel rail sensor plug is like new inside, so isn't that.

Should be getting the ATF changed tomorrow as I got a gallon of Carlube yesterday, so will give an update then.

It didn't seem as bad when driving yesterday but reversing is bad. Reversed up the drive and it juddered then when stationary the idle was very rough and chugging badly, but once I rev the engine it goes back to normal. Makes me wonder if it's anything to do with the idle control/butterfly valve but that wouldn't affect the juddering when driving?

am more that 100% sure this is the gearbox fluid mate thats making it judder let us all know how the fluid change goes and the outcome of it

mark

Update.

Ended up taking the car to Promec in Llantrisant and they hooked it up to the computer. Only one error code which was a P500 which they found out was not an issue as I havent got the F4 dash error (was just an error code error :-s).

They did check the cylinder compression and found cylinder 3 running around (from what I can remember) 0.50 where the others were around -1.23. They said it wasn't anything significant but could be a faulty injector. This is the only thing they had to go on, other than that they didn't have a clue what was causing it.

They said replacing the ATF wouldn't fix it, but I got them to do it regardless. I tried doing myself on my drive but trying to remove the engine guard with no means to lift the car was a nightmare. 3L of fluid came out which was dark brown but thankfully no significant amounts of metal filings in it. Topped back up with 4.5L of Carlube ATF-U.

Since the fluid change the gear changes are smoother and reversing no longer feels like the car is falling apart. BUT, there is still a judder when the accelerator is in the one position i.e. when cruising at a constant 30, 40, 50, etc at around 1500-2000 RPM. It's not as bad but it's still there.

Promec have suggested getting the injectors removed and tested. Not sure what to do as it could mean me replacing part after part chasing the problem.

Update update

After looking up the P500 error code I'll try checking the speed sensor harness to see if there are any issues.

Checked the speed sensor harness and it's caked in gunk. Hopefully cleaning the connections will help.

Cleaned harness but the plug contacts were spotless so doesn't look like anything is contaminating them.

Driving forward has improved since the fluid change but reversing still causes the car to shudder quite badly and then that seems to knock the idle out of sync and it just splutters on tick over?????

Going to order and replace the fuel filter as I don't think its every been changed.

I'd go for an injector playing up.....mine would do this and once you reved it it would clear it........until it went foo bar and I had to get towed.

Arghh the judder is back just as bad now!! Reverse doesn't appear to judder anymore though??

I changed the crankcase filter with the BMW vortex a few days back but that hasn't helped. Been using Millers injector cleaner every now and again but no improvement. I'm wondering whether something is vibrating or moving (that shouldn't be) at that accelerator point, as when I'm in the passenger seat I can feel a very slight vibration (when the car isn't juddering)through my legs that hasn't always been noticeable.

Update.

Car is even worse now and misfiring really bad. It's currently with Promec and they are scratching their heads as to what it can be. They have checked the fuel rails which are fine, performed a leak back test which passed, no error codes displayed. Injectors appear to be ok.

Car runs like a tractor at idle and lights dim as it ticks over, feels like the engine is going to fall out when slightly pressing the go pedal. When at speed there is still a slight vibration and sometimes there is no power for a few seconds when pulling away from standstill.

Any opinions/ideas welcome.

have you checked the MAF ? .. by disconnecting it ..

i.e. given if it's at fault .. it won't show up via computer diagnostics
( Maf sensor problems. )