Won't go into gear

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I took it to this place http://www.rgb4x4.com

Which is just outside Brentwood. As if already bought the parts he charged me £300 for the full replacement as well fluid change on the IRU and replacing a few missing bolts etc.
So happy seeing as how the next cheapest quote I got for labour was 569!!!

He has recommended that I remove the prop shaft. As its a design floor and can damage the IRU. Has anyone done this
 
Adam Gorsuch said:
I took it to this place http://www.rgb4x4.com

Which is just outside Brentwood. As if already bought the parts he charged me £300 for the full replacement as well fluid change on the IRU and replacing a few missing bolts etc.
So happy seeing as how the next cheapest quote I got for labour was 569!!!

He has recommended that I remove the prop shaft. As its a design flaw and can damage the IRU. Has anyone done this
Click to expand...
The propshaft isn't a design floor. However the tyres need to be matched if VCU life is to be maintained.
A damaged VCU (incorrect tyres) will damage the IRD.
Yes lots of people use there Freelander as a FWD, but unless you can't afford to keep it as a 4WD, it's kinda pointless. You well be lugging about a heavy 4X4 body, without the benefits of a 4X4.
 
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Hmm, the place is a Landrover breakers yard and Land Rover specialist and he said nearly all the freelanders that come in get converted. Maybe it's for cost reasons. I changed the IRU fluid last autumn and he said that when he changed it he said there was a lot of metal particles in it. The tyres are a new set fitted in the spring on all four tyres but maybe the damage was done before. He checked my VCU and said he believes it's functioning properly. And doesn't get hot and isn't seized up etc. But I had an issue with a grinding sound on full lock he said that the IRU is put under pressure when it's on full lock.
What are the benefits? Would it be better on fuel with only 2WD. I understand that the purists will be against it but. I only drive on the road and fuel economy on this car is ****. And to be honest I don't want to fork out anymore cash for a whike
 
To be honest, there's only one test that can be done to test the VCU at home. This is called The One Wheel Up Test. It involves placing a raised wheel under a known torque and measuring the time it takes to rotate through 45°. It's on a sticky at the top of the page.
Removing the props makes virtually no difference to fuel consumption.
If you are looking to reduce running costs, you may be better selling the Freelander and buying something more economical. ;)
 
There is that option. But I'm reluctant with the amount of work gone in. Fingers crossed its fine for the moment. I read that if the VCU is damaged it will get hot on a normal drive. I asked the garage to check it for me and he said its running fine. It could be that deposits are from prior to true change. It did have 4 different tyre types fitted And now they are sorted the wear has stopped and the deposits are just residue from post fluid change prior tyre change. I'll keep an eye on it and when the initial shock of this latest repair has disappeared from the wife's memory I'll sneak a new VCU on to it. I'll give it a month and check the quality of the fluid.
 
4 odd tyres will cause VCU damage which will then damage the IRD. There are often metallic particles in the IRD oil. Some are just general wear and some are not. If the particles are gold in colour, then that's the thrust washers for the diff. Silver particles are much more serious, as that's likly to be bearings or gears. It's a wise precaution to remove the props to stop additional damage from a failing VCU. However once the damage has been done, the IRD will need a rebuild;)
 
I didn't ask the colour. I hate this car.
I will do this test but I'm trying to read the thread and it's just a load of arguing. About how valid it is.
Can I ask, am I right in thinking the car is perminant 4 wheel drive as the prop front and back will always turn.
 
Adam Gorsuch said:
I didn't ask the colour. I hate this car.
I will do this test but I'm trying to read the thread and it's just a load of arguing. About how valid it is.
Can I ask, am I right in thinking the car is perminant 4 wheel drive as the prop front and back will always turn.
Click to expand...
There was some unhealthy arguments on the first couple of pages. Ignore anything written by "rippedoff" it was later proved that he knew nothing of what he spoke.
There is a very valid test on there with a video of how to do it by Hippo.
The Freelander is actually a very good vehicle. It just has some particular requirements to maintain it's health.
Oh and it's technically an All Wheel Drive AWD vehicle;)
 
Ok I've just been out and braved the rain. Chucked the front wheel, in first, lift drivers side back wheel off the ground. Haven't got a braker bar but have a long tourque wrench. About 75cm. I can turn the back wheel with push down pressure. Did a full turn happily and at a slow pace. What does that show? All ok?
 
Adam Gorsuch said:
Ok I've just been out and braved the rain. Chucked the front wheel, in first, lift drivers side back wheel off the ground. Haven't got a braker bar but have a long tourque wrench. About 75cm. I can turn the back wheel with push down pressure. Did a full turn happily and at a slow pace. What does that show? All ok?
Click to expand...
Not particularly scientific but you have proved that the VCU hasn't seized solid.
It's worth doing the test as shown in the video though, when the weather improves of course;)
 
Hi Adam, you mentioned you changed the IRD oil a while back, what colour was the oil that came out? If it was grey, that is a sign that the bearings in the unit have been pulverised with the fine particles mixing into the oil. That being the case its likely the IRD may now be fragile and likely to fail at some point.

The Freelander transmission is good and strong, so long as everything is maintained correctly. Problems come though when mismatched tyres are put on the car, tyres are run with different pressures or the Viscous Coupling is not replaced when its viscousness goes to tight. When everything's right, the IRD might have a (say) 300K mile life expectancy - mild tyre differences or VCU tightness may bring it down to (say) 100K mile life expectancy - extreme tyre difference or VCU tightness may bring it down to (say) 1K mile life expectancy. There isn't really a design flaw in this as such, but it is dependent on the owner knowing this and maintaining the car correctly - the design flaw is LR doesn't give owners enough information about it or have any onboard monitors on the car to indicate if there's a problem with tyres or VCU.

Freelander transmission is unique within the Land Rover range. Lots of 4WD specialists understand the Series which is switchable 4WD and Defender, Disco & RR which are Permanent 4WD - but don't really understand the Freelander. If the garage you went to is telling people that there is a design flaw and that the props should be removed, then guess what - most of the Freelanders he sees will have had the props removed! Having said that there is an ignorance about how the Freelander transmission works so owners don't check tyres/VCU enough, as cars get older people tend to want to spend less on maintenance, so will replace as few tyres as needed, etc, so yeh - they will and do fail! If he knew what he was talking about, he would be telling you about tyres and doing reasonable checks on the VCU and thus maintaining your car properly with a good life expectancy for its transmission.

Ignore the complexity and arguments on that thread - the 1 wheel up test is simple! I just Googled "1 wheel up test" and the first hit is....



Its all you need to know! Its covered in numerous threads on here - but on here they get hijacked with all sorts of arguments and c**p that hides the real content. People generally do the test with a 1.2M bar and a 5KG weight and you're looking for a time of about 30 seconds (Hippo gets 35 in that video). If it comes back with a minute, be cautious. If it comes back with much over a minute, whip the props off before getting a replacement VCU - and get a decent replacement - either a new one or a recon from someone like Bells Engineering - don't be tempted to go for the cheapest and ask around on here first about any supplier cos there's been lots of c**p recon VCUs made by cowboys.

I'm coming from 1st hand experience, I've had my IRD 'go' through ignorance - its why I signed up on here to find out what went wrong - which was an under inflated tyre. I've been running for a couple of years 2WD since and TBH my '99 L Series has been a great family wagon during that time - boringly super reliable (as it was in 4WD) - economical and cheap to run (as it was in 4WD) - handles great (not much difference to 4WD although other engines I appreciate have a greater difference) - great town and country touring car for us. I wouldn't consider swapping to a 'car' just cos its 2WD - there's no reason/benefit. Having said that I really miss the 4WD, I have the parts to put it back 4WD and really need to get round to installing them!
 
GrumpyGel said:
Hi Adam, you mentioned you changed the IRD oil a while back, what colour was the oil that came out? If it was grey, that is a sign that the bearings in the unit have been pulverised with the fine particles mixing into the oil. That being the case its likely the IRD may now be fragile and likely to fail at some point.

The Freelander transmission is good and strong, so long as everything is maintained correctly. Problems come though when mismatched tyres are put on the car, tyres are run with different pressures or the Viscous Coupling is not replaced when its viscousness goes to tight. When everything's right, the IRD might have a (say) 300K mile life expectancy - mild tyre differences or VCU tightness may bring it down to (say) 100K mile life expectancy - extreme tyre difference or VCU tightness may bring it down to (say) 1K mile life expectancy. There isn't really a design flaw in this as such, but it is dependent on the owner knowing this and maintaining the car correctly - the design flaw is LR doesn't give owners enough information about it or have any onboard monitors on the car to indicate if there's a problem with tyres or VCU.

Freelander transmission is unique within the Land Rover range. Lots of 4WD specialists understand the Series which is switchable 4WD and Defender, Disco & RR which are Permanent 4WD - but don't really understand the Freelander. If the garage you went to is telling people that there is a design flaw and that the props should be removed, then guess what - most of the Freelanders he sees will have had the props removed! Having said that there is an ignorance about how the Freelander transmission works so owners don't check tyres/VCU enough, as cars get older people tend to want to spend less on maintenance, so will replace as few tyres as needed, etc, so yeh - they will and do fail! If he knew what he was talking about, he would be telling you about tyres and doing reasonable checks on the VCU and thus maintaining your car properly with a good life expectancy for its transmission.

Ignore the complexity and arguments on that thread - the 1 wheel up test is simple! I just Googled "1 wheel up test" and the first hit is....



Its all you need to know! Its covered in numerous threads on here - but on here they get hijacked with all sorts of arguments and c**p that hides the real content. People generally do the test with a 1.2M bar and a 5KG weight and you're looking for a time of about 30 seconds (Hippo gets 35 in that video). If it comes back with a minute, be cautious. If it comes back with much over a minute, whip the props off before getting a replacement VCU - and get a decent replacement - either a new one or a recon from someone like Bells Engineering - don't be tempted to go for the cheapest and ask around on here first about any supplier cos there's been lots of c**p recon VCUs made by cowboys.

I'm coming from 1st hand experience, I've had my IRD 'go' through ignorance - its why I signed up on here to find out what went wrong - which was an under inflated tyre. I've been running for a couple of years 2WD since and TBH my '99 L Series has been a great family wagon during that time - boringly super reliable (as it was in 4WD) - economical and cheap to run (as it was in 4WD) - handles great (not much difference to 4WD although other engines I appreciate have a greater difference) - great town and country touring car for us. I wouldn't consider swapping to a 'car' just cos its 2WD - there's no reason/benefit. Having said that I really miss the 4WD, I have the parts to put it back 4WD and really need to get round to installing them!
Click to expand...

Excellent write up GG. Thanks for taking the time to write down such a complete explanation;)
 
Adam Gorsuch said:
I took it to this place http://www.rgb4x4.com

Which is just outside Brentwood. As if already bought the parts he charged me £300 for the full replacement as well fluid change on the IRU and replacing a few missing bolts etc.
So happy seeing as how the next cheapest quote I got for labour was 569!!!

He has recommended that I remove the prop shaft. As its a design floor and can damage the IRU. Has anyone done this
Click to expand...
As already said he is only half right. They can damage the IRD and rear diff if the VCU is stuffed (Locked solid) but otherwise there is no design floor or flaw for that matter. If you can turn the rear wheel with a breaker bar then it isn't completely locked up but you really need to test it properly to have a better idea of the VCU condition. Others will tell you this is a waste of time as turning the wheel slowly with 5kg at 1.2 metres is not the same as the forces it will experience when driving, and they are right but it is better than their alternative which is drive it until it breaks or replace it whether it needs replaced or not. The test is not definitive but it is the best we've got. BTW I have seen 2 minutes and 3 minutes on different cars but it really should be well under 1 minute to be safe.
 
Sorry been away from this thread for a while. I took it into a field nearby and blitzed around. The front would slip and the rear would kick in lovely. I will do the test later this afternoon and time it. For me it is a road car and it's unlikely that I need to go off road.
As to the previous question about oil colour. I don't remember. And I didn't ask the mechanic this time. I could try to let a bit out to see but atm I haven't got the time.
I read somewhere that you don't need to remove the prop just uncouple it. Is that right? Or is that asking for trouble. I've ordered new bearings as sometimes I feel I can hear a duff bearing noise coming from below my arse!!
When I took it to the field when I got back the VCU was warm not hot but on a normal drive it's cold. I'll do the test later today. If it's something silly I'll drop the prop or uncouple if that works until I put some money aside. For a new VCU.
 
I'm not sure how it could be uncoupled and still out of the way. It isn't that hard to remove with the right tools. I always use my 1/4" Halfords socket set on the torx bolts 8mm front and 10mm rear (I think, maybe the other way round), then drop the VCU. It's a wee bit awkward but not too bad.
Mind you if it is passes the 1WU test I wouldn't bother taking it off, can't see any reason to and testing it is a hell of a lot easier than removing it.
 
Ok did the test, it took about 1 min to travel 45 degrees. So it's off. The bearings look shot anyway. It too about an hour and I'm now filthy but I'm a lot less stressed. It feels strange to drive. But it sounds a lot healthier going round corners slowly and reversing. It will have to stay this way will the end of August as holiday comes first.
 
The bearings might be shot but 1 minute is not disastrous. Mine took almost three minutes and no obvious harm done, mind you it was very obvious there was a problem while driving so I wouldn't recommend letting it go that far. Check the rear diff supports as well as the front one on mine was shot.
 
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