Winches! To have? not to have? which one?

I carry a kinetic rope in my arsenal of recovery gear but it is for use as a very last resort. All other avenues must be exhausted before I will consider using it.

for righting a rolled vehicle a standard strop or decent rope is far better than a kinetic rope. I often right cars using strops on the front of my truck rather than using my winch.

terry01 said:

Thanks for your input redhand i was only showing that you can winch your self out with your front winch as for starving to death i doubt it very much

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Have you seen the size of Pikey? he needs a good meal inside him or he might slip through a drain grate

Found this extract from Tom Sheppard's Vehicle Dependant Expedition Guide
"Think hard first and give careful thought to winch before buying it. It is more than an add-on accessory - heavy, expensive, often requiring uprated front springs etc .........despite knee jerk, not always applicable to expeditions.....think on possible usage - casual, heavy duty, electric seldom suitable......training definately essential......
A winch would have its uses in emergencies such as righting a vehicle that has rolled over of fallen among rocks. A Tirfor hand winch however could be used for this........slow but comfortable".
After much debate, reading and research, plus others input, we've decided to go for a Tirfor, plus long tow (possibly polypropylene) rope (30-50m) with 4.5-6T break strain, towing shackles and rings, hi-lift, air bag, shovel. Also, join the local Land Rover club to see if we can get some training and famiiarisation in before we go to determine how to use properly, what tips and additional bits we might need to prepare us. Hopefully in most instances we can use LR as 2nd vehicle to sort the caravan, if not then the Tirfor, hi lift, air bag - all dependant on angle of recovery which will be important for us. Apart from the weight of a front mounted winch and additional equipment and training to support, we think may end up restrictive (to front only) as well as dependant on vehicle engine, battery etc. Tirfor might be much harder work, but lighter load ultimately and more flex. Otherwise, hopefully we'll be prepared enough not to go alone anywhere that might be dodgy to assist us in more risky situations. Thanks all. Any further comments/pointers welcome.

The most essential factors in every recovery revolve around just a few simple rules. Which are plain common sense.
1. Dont ever put a recovery vehicle in the same situation as a stricken vehicle.
2. Think long and hard about how you are going to proceed with all the equipment you have available to you. (that equipment includes Rocks, boulders, trees, lumps of wood, spare wheels, everything and anything that you could possibly use!) ,
3. Make sure everybody is involved and understands the execution of the plan. (for some, their involvement is simply being at a safe distance or boiling the kettle!) keeping out of the way is as impotant as rigging a rope.
4. Spend all day discussing all the possible methods for one single succesful attempt, rather than trying out all the possible scenarios for many un-succesful attempts over the course of one day!
5. In the case of vehicle to vehicle recovery, get someone who is in eye contact with both vehicles to co-ordinate the plan; i.e. say "go"
6. Dont forget the basic rules of Physics... understand that everything has a load rating before it breaks, most 4x4 recovery gear is plenty strong enough. It's the idiots who think their truck is made of kryptonite who'll tear off part of your chassis.


As for Kinetic ropes; personally, I rate them. In good hands they are a perfect piece of kit and a great tool. However, to put it in in perspective, out of the 10-15 regular members that come out with me from our club, I can count two or three I would really trust to recover me with enough control to use a kinetic rope when really needed.

Hand winch would be my vote. Perhaps look at the tirfor copied. The Black Rat one is highly rated and about half the cost of a Tirfor.

Make sure you have plenty of shear pins for it just in case.

I would also look to a proper course on recovery. Your local land rover club might have some one with good experiance or qualified. Perhaps see if you have a local 4x4 Response group near you as I am sure if they have had the training they would help show you the ropes in exchange for a donation.


P.S hope you have a great trip and experiance. Will you be up dating the web page on route as and when you can?

I Just bought my self a trifor
good thread guys

Vinnie - yes, we're going to try to keep website updated while travelling this year, fingers crossed! Thanks for your wishes. Looked at Black Rat but not sure where can source from (Oz and US and one site have found in UK but seem out of stock). I have heard of them and checked them out while looking at Tirfor.
Battenberg/all - would a Tirfor TU16 suffice - 1600kg lift and 2.5T pull. The next one up looks a bit more serious at 5T, Tirfors not cheap (seen quotes of about £700 with 20m cable plus VAT for TU16) but have just seen one on eBay to buy now at around £200 and am just checking this out to ensure for real etc. Not in a dead rush to buy today - just want to understand correct weight ratio which I think TU16 suited (for caravan 2T GVM, 110 CSW 3T GVM) Am checking out the training meantime.

Go for the TU16. That should suffice unless your name is Arnie. The 3.5 tonne one is bloody heavy

I have a Tirfor16 that lives in the back of my car. I bought that on the advice of some of the folk on here, based on weight, portability and pull rating. It's the one that I would go for... having felt the weight/bulk of the 5 tonner.

Does your caravan chassis have rear recovery points as well as it's front hitch? there may be a scenario where you drag the caravan through but become stuck and need to unhitch the caravan and pull the caravan off backwards before trying to recover the vehicle.

We had this happen with a friend of mine who was pulling a sankey trailer. We had to unhitch it and get the trailer away before we could make any attempt on the car. Luckily there were enough burly blokes (6-8) to haul it backwards then turn the sankey around and a following car who could then tow the trailer out of the way.

The ability to hitch a winch to the back of your caravan just to pull it clear of the car, so you can have a go at the car, may prove usefull.

TU16 it is then - sounds right. Yep - working on the rear recovery points on the caravan too (not with us at the mo and never thought to look before - will check it out when it comes back) Training meantime. Huge thanks everyone.

try this company
www.liftingandcrane.co.uk they sell tirfor style recovery equipment give them a try they are in gloucestershire but hope you don't have to use any of the equipment all the best and safe trip

terry01 said:

Thanks for your input redhand i was only showing that you can winch your self out with your front winch as for starving to death i doubt it very much

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The problem with the setup is every pulley/snatch block you add slows downs the speed at which the recovered vehicle moves. and increases the length of cable required.. for instance a 60mtr pull with 1 snatch block requires 120mtr of cable. With 3 snatchblocks 240mtrs. So the idea is too use as few pulleys as possible. or the recovery ends up taking hr's to set up, recover and then strip the rig and pack it all away.

redhand said:

The problem with the setup is every pulley/snatch block you add slows downs the speed at which the recovered vehicle moves. and increases the length of cable required.. for instance a 60mtr pull with 1 snatch block requires 120mtr of cable. With 3 snatchblocks 20mtrs. So the idea is too use as few pulleys as possible. or the recovery ends up taking hr's to set up, recover and then strip the rig and pack it all away.

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crikey - yu edited that quick .

fair enough redhand but that's old news now think they are going for a tirfor but only showing that you can use a winch on the front of you truck to pull it backwards

The Mad Hat Man said:

crikey - yu edited that quick .

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Aye me kyboad kys ar geting a bt sticy

terry01 said:

fair enough redhand but that's old news now think they are going for a tirfor but only showing that you can use a winch on the front of you truck to pull it backwards

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Aye I think that was posted on here a few weeks ago. Tirfor everytime for me. Think winches are a waste of weight & fuel.

out of interest Pikey, what size tirfor are you using?

battenberg said:

out of interest Pikey, what size tirfor are you using?

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Tu 16, If it looks like the load will be too much for it I throw a snatch block in the rig as well. As this reduces the effort required to operate the winch & I have a 5ft 32mm diameter length of Rebar for an handle so plenty of leverage. and no danger of bending it. Great for using as a lever on it's own as well.

I made the mistake of using my handle as a lever and bent it slightly on a capsized rear anti-roll bar! Once I managed to get it to extend again with a load of big hammers, I zip tied it to my dog cage which is where it lives now... extended!

Mine came with the length of Rebar already modded to be the handle ( length of steel tube welded to the end of it.) I don't think this will bend easily it's solid bar 32mm thick as used in reinforced Concreting..