Winches! To have? not to have? which one?

A bit con-fussed. We're thinking about a winch for 110 CSW. We thought 'no' at first (not for LR in any case) but given distance we're covering along with off-road caravan that weighs 1.8T GVM - thought might be a sensible decision to have afterall. Have been offered Britpart (9500i) as cheap but research indicates seems to get a slating re: quality. Warn expensive though look fab but don't want to pay for a name especially if not planning to use often and don't want attractive looking shiny things for sake of it (am lying but trying hard to be practical and real), Ramsey OK and there are a whole host of others. Then there are manual, remote control, PTO?
Want something simple, easy to use, quick, smooth and capable for what we hope will be minimal use. Weight a consideration but believe we can afford. Experience of ever using - none (currently). Though on-road mostly for 11 months - want to get off the beaten track too when we want and will and be a liitle bit risque just every now and then. Thoughts are that - remote control would be good, 9500 sounds OK in calculation. Or, are we just over-worrying and should plump for what we've been offered with a side button operation and be done with it? Or, none of the above & make do with lift bag, hi lift, tow rope etc? Views appreciated.

Our inkling leans toward having the winch meantime - don't want to make things unnecessarily hard.

Given that you are towing a caravan, have you considered a Tirfor?

they can winch from any angle, not just the front. or you could unhitch your caravan, winch out your CSW then winch out your caravan off the back of the motor using it as an anchor...

And if you ever have to use one, you'll never get stuck again!!!

Am looking - never heard of it before - but so far so good - thanks B. Seems more portable, flexible etc., possibly a little bit more manual and dangerous. Will have better look - seems like just the thing though than all that heavy duty stuff at the front of the LR. Will come back on this.

the downside to them is they are very heavy to move into position and hard work to use in anger, the upside is that they require no batteries, installtion, or a running engine to work, and a second hand/reconditioned one will sell for what you bought it for (ebay)

I dont think i'd like to use one in the midday sun on a tropic line or in a desert, stuck up to my axles with no shade.... however, with a front mounted winch you can't winch out backwards or even sideways... far less versatile, but does operate with the press of a button..!

If you use a snatch block (pulley) attatched to wherever it is you were going to anchor your hook to, and then bring the winch cables hook back to a tow point on your vehicle it will effectively double the pull of the winch. It will also halve the speed that you move at. Thjis means you have more control while using less power consumption and will greatly reduce the risk of burning out or stalling your winch. (assuming you go for an electric one). The same technique can be used with any winch to help reduce the effort required to move your vehicle.

All food for thought.
We'll have the kids with us too so unsure about wanting to faff about too much (though could be fun as long as no hot sun and safe to use). Weight (lifting) could be an issue BUT the plus sounds like the flex of being able to attack from all sides - could be invaluable. Sounds good. Plus, desert visits limited and well planned - so maybe could afford the risk/likeliehood/ . Also trying to weigh up the probability of something actually going wrong AND without other help possibly being about. How often will we really be alone or unable to call for help via mobile? Will enlighten other half who'll probably love it (purposely roll the caravan and LR just to try it out). Will find out more meantime. Thanks.

__________________this is how to winch backwards with a winch on the front of your truck

terry01 said:

__________________this is how to winch backwards with a winch on the front of your truck

Click to expand...

3rd snatch block on rear is superfluous. & a fooking hilift would do it quicker and easier. As rope speed would be so slow yu'd starve to death before you got it out.

Thanks for your input redhand i was only showing that you can winch your self out with your front winch as for starving to death i doubt it very much

but you need 4 good anchor points to do it! I would just keep going forward

Anyway the OP was regarding fitting or forgetting a winch for overland use. Not techniques. I blame Ratty for starting it, shame on you.

Cassie, the reason I have not made an input is because it will boil down to personal choice and how "offroad" you see yourself going.(remember though, one mans tame greenlane is anothers Ladoga Challenge!) a Winch will be useless in Morocco but a godsend in wet Wales. Too many variables.

G

Thanks G / everyone - have to say that my last post was in response to B's post and not R's in any case. All other input am still trying to work out (right over my head). Take point about not needing winch in Morocco but it's about being able to recover the heavy caravan really - and not the terrain or the LR so much (though if Caravan goes, LR may well go with it if attached). Think need some form of self recovery equipment other than just an air bag and hi-lift. Had a look at Tirfor in more detail - looks cool - a lifetime toy even without a vehicle. Also thought we could buddy up (make sure not alone) if doing any unsure / dodgy off-roading - therefore no need for winch (never go alone etc.) but then keep swaying back to front mounted winch for speed & safety possibly esp. with 2 kids. Have been looking at the Superwinch caravan / trailer winches but can't find out any more information on how / what's really different yet about these. Waiting for a chap to call me back. Love the Tirfor - we might well end up with both (arrrrrrrgh!). And winches seem to go with trailers / caravans. Bugger! Think we might get away with just the Tirfor and would never be wasted but manual, heavy, bit of effort, have to stand close to rope - decisions, decisions

Good luck with your decision

winch or tirfor
i used to use the tirfor (3 ton) very often and hated the site of them,firstly its a bulky item and is a decent weight then you have the cable and when i was using them there was no kinetic rope as the unit would be useless(gears inside tirfor need cable to latch/grab on to)so remember the length of cable is also an issue with greased up and coiled is a messy and bulky carry, then also how much cable do you bring???10m/20m/30m as they say how long is a piece of string!
in regards to winches i am also gearing up and like the sounds of the 9500. i used to have a warn super winch on my cj5 in africa and found that ok.
hope this steers you in the right direction,
if there is a circus tent or large marquees been erected have a look at them when erecting,you will see the tirfor coming to life but then look at effort to get it right.

Thanks J - all points noted. We're still swaying about on what to do, likeliehood, still deciding etc. but found this exert from Nick Dimbleby's Off-road driving techniques book [ame]http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/1861260520?ie=UTF8&keywords=winch%20recovery&p=S03E&avc=1&checkSum=z2tozMy9W%252BjTNO%252FpIKbi77GB6JTc5s3wE105umBJWrI%253D[/ame]

Useful for newbies like me in terms of Trifor flexibility (e.g. vehicle dead battery /engine ie can't use electric winch, lack of maint, broken cable, vehicle facing wrong way)

OK - have just realised - don't think will allow cheeky link was trying. Goto amazon.co.uk and type 'winch recovery' in search box and select go. Scroll down to find book. Should display an exert page 116 you can click on. If not, let me know and I'll try something else.

Hi Cassie,
Depends how 'off road' adventurous you want to be.
If your going to stick to most of the accepted routes, then a winch is going to be just dead weight.
Take a couple of kinetic recovery ropes.
You can carry an awfully lot of rope for the same weight as a winch.
At the end of the day, it's all about weight, and to have your rig as light and mobile as possible.

'vette

Funny enough - have been doing some reading up on just bringing rope and about kinetic rope etc. All new to us so we busy trying to find out more. Sounds much more simple. Debate we are having is if the caravan jack-knives (most common occurence with these things) and the on-coming results of this. And, with kids - most straight forward recovery if needed. Meantime, we're continuing to have a proper think on this but agree about the dead weight on the vehicle. Uncomfortable about having especially if never used. The most off road I reckon we'll get is probably dodgy narrow mountain passes and piste rather than off we reckon.

vid of kinetic rope very dangerous if not used properly and lack of care to rope{ And before you lot start I'm only trying to help some inexperienced people }please try and get some help on how to use a kinetic rope there must be someone near you that should know how to use one
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEtuO-Mh9Lg"]YouTube - Recovery rope snapped dangerous[/ame] watch the back window of the blue deepender

uk_vette said:

Take a couple of kinetic recovery ropes.

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I disagree. Kinetic ropes can be dangerous ... and they're looking to pull or roll back over a Landrover and/or a caravan .. now how will a kinetic help a caravan on it's side?

IMHO I'd have a tirfor .. not the largest one, and I'd have a length of winching wire rope, a spare winch wire rope, and an extension piece, maybe 6 pulley blocks, and some strops, towrope etc.

I'd also suggest you either get some instruction somewhere on their use and general recovery techniques, or you practise for various scenarios, and gain a decent level of knowledge of how the winch works, how the shackles and pulleys can help reduce the load, or provide extra or angular pulls and try and get as best acquainted with it as possible. Hopefully you'll never need to use any of it in anger, but it's gonna be hard on you mentally to know you've got the kit if something happens, but don't know how to use it!

Last thing, IMHO, you want to use when you're overturning a rolled vehicle/caravan is a kinetic.

PS .. I use my Hi-lift as a winch, infrequently, but when I haven't and I remember I haven't, I sometimes get it and the chains and strops out and have a practics on the school field or car-park (I'm a caretaker) as I believe there's a lot to be learned by simply fossicking about 'playing' at recovery situations. Only trouble with this setup is it's a bit heavy (chain length) for expedition stuff ..