What on Earth ...

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Andy Land

Andy Land

Well-Known Member
Posts
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... en route to Cuckoosville.
... have I done?
Hi guys ... unscrewed my fusebox today and turned it around to look for any loose or touching wires that could be causing my ongoing wiper/main beam earthing problem previously mentioned. I couldn't see anything amiss so screwed it back on and now it won't start ... just a click coming from the fusebox area and nothing else! Unfortunately I had to get my little one from nursery and so haven't had chance to look but is it feasible that I could have broken something important like a starter relay or simply loosened a wire by fiddling? I connected my powerpack to the battery to jump it but still the same click! Any ideas please?:doh:
 
Had something similar - turned out to be a slightly loose earth connection on the battery.

Lights etc. still worked, but when I turned the ignition there was a 'clicking' sound inside the car and nothing else - the current drain was too much for the loose earth.

Not sure if you had the leads off the battery before playing with the fuseboix or whether it might have just worked loose.

Just in case, worth removing and reattaching securely.
 
Yup, re check your neg connection on the battery, personally i give the connection a wee tap with a hammer to make sure their sat tight.

A click means lack of ampage to turn the starter due to loose connection, i doubt it's part of your fuse box area as the starter is directly wired to the battery but worth a check after checking your battery connections ;)
 
Thanks chaps ... only touched the battery when I connected the powerpack to it and had previously cleaned the batt terminals and copper slipped them. Pretty sure it must be fuse box related but will try and take a look later today. Cheers for your help.
 
Right I spent spent nearly two hours this afternoon on this and still at a loss! All fuses good, relay clicks when key turned showing it's receiving power but that's where it ends. Considering all I did originally was remove the fusebox and turn it around for a good investigation I am at a complete loss as to what has happened. New battery and terminals nice and tight, lights work fine, headlights bright but don't dim when turning the key showing nothing going to the starter. Help ... anybody had this problem? :confused:
 
Nightmare Andy

Fluke coincidence of starter motor failure? either due to solonoid (brushes wear) or earthing issues

Any evidence of headlamps dimming when turning ignition key?

Another daft thought - but not sure it would have happened whilst playing with the fuse box - are all the wires still connected to the back of the ignition switch? A case of removing dash and looking with a torch - should be visible - but a long shot. Just wondered if a cable got pulled....

Only other thoguht - does yours have the separate fuse box in the engine bay - right hand side as you look from front - near the heater? Should be 3 or 4 maxi blade fuses in there. Know that some relate to glow plug warming circuit, not sure if others connected to starter. They can get hairline cracks or coroded. Worth putting a multimeter across them as another quick elimination check
 
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Station House said:
Nightmare Andy



Any evidence of headlamps dimming when turning ignition key?


Hi SH,

Many thanks for your help ... no evidence of lights dimming so no power getting to the starter I assume? All I get is a click from the fusebox when I turn the key. All other electrics working fine as far as I can see. All fuses good and tight and every wire into relays and fuses seem A-OK.

I'll check under the bonnet for any blade fuses as you suggest but beyond that I'm as stuck as a Suzuki on a speed bump!
Click to expand...
 
I had exactly this question when messing with the battery. It somehow coincided with it being the starter motor solenoid! So check the power to starter motor, wiggle the lead and check whether it is live. Another check is to see if glow plugs work (check with voltmeter at the plugs or the relay under bonnet) as these are on a differen circuit wired from battery. (all of this on 1990 Defender Tdi so might be slightly different)
 
satchmolips said:
I had exactly this question when messing with the battery. It somehow coincided with it being the starter motor solenoid! So check the power to starter motor, wiggle the lead and check whether it is live. Another check is to see if glow plugs work (check with voltmeter at the plugs or the relay under bonnet) as these are on a differen circuit wired from battery. (all of this on 1990 Defender Tdi so might be slightly different)
Click to expand...

Cheers satchmo, it's just such a strange coincidence! I've just been out with the torch and dismantled the steering column to check wiring but nothing seems amiss. Excuse my ignorance here but where is the starter solenoid located exactly? Is it part of the starter motor itself or located separately? It's mentioned in the Haynes manual but typically no picture or where to find it!
Yours is a 200tdi too I assume so should be the same. Many thanks fella, all help greatly appreciated. Andy:confused:
 
Thanks Andy

If the starter pinion were jammed it would draw current, not turn the engine and therefore dim the lights

As this isn't the case, could be the solonoid or poor earth.

Out of frustration I'd give the starter a good thump with a rubber or plastic mallet, check that the wires to the starter haven't come lose (or off) and try to check the earth

Beyond that, have to confess I'm stumped

Feel for you buddy - it's a pain

PS - yeh, solonoid part of the starter motor - it's the smaller cylinder attached to it - a swine to see because of the exhaust positioning
 
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Station House said:
Thanks Andy

If the starter pinion were jammed it would draw current, not turn the engine and therefore dim the lights

As this isn't the case, could be the solonoid or poor earth.

Out of frustration I'd give the starter a good thump with a rubber or plastic mallet, check that the wires to the starter haven't come lose (or off) and try to check the earth

Beyond that, have to confess I'm stumped

Feel for you buddy - it's a pain

PS - yeh, solonoid part of the starter motor - it's the smaller cylinder attached to it - a swine to see because of the exhaust positioning
Click to expand...

Thanks SH ... I'll take a look at the starter. Assuming you can get to it to give it a good rubber malleting from down below without taking the heat shield off. Naturally will check wires are attached and clean and will trace the earth back. I'm assuming there is no relay or fuse in the fusebox that can stop power going to the starter system.
Thanks fella ... will let you know. :eek:
 
Andy Land said:
. I'm assuming there is no relay or fuse in the fusebox that can stop power going to the starter system.
Thanks fella ... will let you know. :eek:
Click to expand...

Your starter is wired directly to the battery Andy, check the earth strap whilst you are there, it'll be on a small rod with a nut and connected to the starter motor below the main cable.

I'm assuming you have a 200/300 or 19J engine, not sure on TD5's though so i could be incorrect on the above if it is.
 
PaulWilde said:
Your starter is wired directly to the battery Andy, check the earth strap whilst you are there, it'll be on a small rod with a nut and connected to the starter motor below the main cable.

I'm assuming you have a 200/300 or 19J engine, not sure on TD5's though so i could be incorrect on the above if it is.
Click to expand...

Hi Paul ... 200tdi on mine. Just read on another site (ssshhhh!) and somebody had the same problem on their 300tdi and turned out to be a bad starter solenoid connection. I'll be taking a look on Saturday and let you know.
All the best.
 
If you take your fuse cover of again try tuching each relay as you turn the key this way you may se/feel by tuch which one is clicking then folow the relevant wires, however i must confes it does sound like starter motor, in any case whip it out give it a clean up on it's conections and some oil/light grease on its pinion shaft. Yeah it's a pig to get to.
 
ANGELO DAMATO said:
If you take your fuse cover of again try tuching each relay as you turn the key this way you may se/feel by tuch which one is clicking then folow the relevant wires, however i must confes it does sound like starter motor, in any case whip it out give it a clean up on it's conections and some oil/light grease on its pinion shaft. Yeah it's a pig to get to.
Click to expand...

Well this is doing my head in now! ... took the fusebox out again and removed the three relays, put them in one by one until I found which one clicked when the key is turned. I then made sure all the wires to the back of this relay were sound and they were. The wiring loom is so tight where it goes up behind the dash that I can't see any way that it has caused any trouble by simply taking it out in the first place. Still can't help thinking that the answer lies in here somewhere though as it would be just too much of a coincidence ... yes Iknow it happens though :( I got underneath with the torch but to be honest I can't even see any wiring going into the starter. I'm assuming you need to remove things to get to it even to check the connections but can't really do anything at night. The last thing I want to do is start taking engine components apart for no reason ... I know what will happen if I do ... I'll cause another problem! I just can't help thinking it is something so simple but impossible to spot! Oh well, I'll find it somehow.
Thanks for all your help fellas, you're helping me stay sane knowing you're scratching your heads on my behalf. :)
 
Andy Land said:
Well this is doing my head in now! ... took the fusebox out again and removed the three relays, put them in one by one until I found which one clicked when the key is turned. I then made sure all the wires to the back of this relay were sound and they were. The wiring loom is so tight where it goes up behind the dash that I can't see any way that it has caused any trouble by simply taking it out in the first place. Still can't help thinking that the answer lies in here somewhere though as it would be just too much of a coincidence ... yes Iknow it happens though :( I got underneath with the torch but to be honest I can't even see any wiring going into the starter. I'm assuming you need to remove things to get to it even to check the connections but can't really do anything at night. The last thing I want to do is start taking engine components apart for no reason ... I know what will happen if I do ... I'll cause another problem! I just can't help thinking it is something so simple but impossible to spot! Oh well, I'll find it somehow.
Thanks for all your help fellas, you're helping me stay sane knowing you're scratching your heads on my behalf. :)
Click to expand...

Try changing the relay. Just because it clicks it does not mean contacts are making. Alternativeley check with volt meter supply in and out, Good luck. Remember a relay is just a variant of a basic switch
 
Not to throw a spanner (or rubber mallet) in the works but, I had a similar problem a while ago. Turned out the fusebox area was so damn fussy that one of the connections had come ever so slightly loose - almost laughable except I ended up taking the starter motor out, cleaning it, messed with the battery cables, re charged the battery and so on before the bugger of a connector was sussed. Still, it's had a spring clean now. So, frustrating - like watching Wales play flat rugby last night.
 
Absolutely undertsand the not wishing to randomly take things apart sentiment - I have the t-shirt and film for that one!

Strange coincidences do have a habit of happening with Landys. I've just had an immobilser fitted, all was great for a day. Next morning glow plug warming light failed. Checked wiring, earths, changed the bulb etc. Turned out that the relay in the engine bay chose that moment to have coroded terminals!!!

For simplicity worth swapping out the starter relay just in case - it is at least in the vicinity of the fuse box so could tie in with the coincidence theory.

Anyway, the starter motor circuit is pretty straightforward - access is a pain.

If you stand at the front right hand side as you face the landy (passenger side) and look with a torch above/behind the exhaust manifold you'll see the starter and the connections - when I was struggling I pushed a digital camera into the gap and took a photo so I knew what i was looking for!

The starter motor casing slides out towards the front of the engine bay.

Attached as they say are two photos I took earlier in case that helps (solonoid switch wire is the smaller red/white one with the spade connector)


Think Andy you need to be checking that there is a good 12v feed to the starter, and that the switch wire to the solonoid is going live.

If it is - failed starter, If it isn't (and the worse outcome) - wiring issue

Good luck!
 

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