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VGT / Hybrid Turbo for RTV

Discussion in 'Motorsport / Trials' started by cartoonhead, Jul 20, 2020.

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  1. cartoonhead

    cartoonhead Active Member

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    The turbo has gone in my Td5 90 and I’m thinking of fitting a variable geometry or hybrid turbo from allisport in its place. I can’t see anything in the rules that says this would put me into the modified class for RTV trials, does anyone know for sure?
     
  2. Hicap phill

    Hicap phill Well-Known Member

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    If they can’t see the intervals no worries...:eek:

    RTV is road taxed motors so if you drive it there,they should not put you into modified.
    What club you trialling with?
    ALRC can be picky on parts ;)
     
  3. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    What regs are you working too?

    Ultimately the answer is 'yes'. You can do this. But it may impact the class you compete in.

    The ALRC regs are purposely written, that if it doesn't say you can do something, then you can't.

    Section A - General A .1. As a general principle in all vehicle regulations, it is prohibited to carry out any tuning or modification that is not specifically permitted. The fact that some modifications are mentioned as prohibited does not imply that others are allowed.

    There is nothing in the regs which says hybrid or VNT turbo's are allowed.

    However under the Modified class regulations it says this:

    C.3.2. Carburettors may be changed, air intake system and manifolds may be altered to any specification.

    I think you could argue the case that a turbo is part of the air intake system. However, this is a little ambiguous, so may require clarification from the Scrutineering committee should you encounter resistance.


    In fairness, being modified class is probably correct. A hybrid or VNT turbo should be giving you more potential power over a wider powerband. Therefore giving your vehicle a better chance of making a long climb, that others may fail. i.e. you are getting a competitive advantage out of the modification, which is the entire point of having a modified class!

    Sadly, some see the "Modified class" as a dirty word and would rather lie and cheat to remain being called standard class. This isn't something I would suggest or promote, despite the fact a club scrutineer will not be taking your turbo apart to inspect it on competition day. There is a little thing called honesty and integrity.

    For club level trials this probably won't matter, as most clubs will amalgamate standard & modified classes anyway, unless it is a particularly large event.

    If your local scrutineer is unhappy with the above, then there is also class-Q. Which basically allows anything that looks like a Land Rover with a Land Rover engine/gearbox.

    Class Q. A vehicle manufactured from Land Rover parts in accordance with MSA Regulations. Vehicles must retain Land Rover axles, engines and drivetrain. Vehicles must retain the appearance of a Land Rover.

    https://www.alrc.co.uk/stylesheets/downloads/Competition-Rules-and-Regulations.pdf
     
  4. Hicap phill

    Hicap phill Well-Known Member

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    @300bhp/ton if you have the bluebook in front of you ;) I don’t think it matters what the turbo is, you are classed (engine size)with a penatly Due to induction. Therefore a tdi is against most V8s
    I used to hate checking ALRC motors.i did say I never seen an 80/88 coils doing V8 out of rover.but they write them rules.
    (Yes it took them 6 months to find the obvious change to my motor & be banned again :oops:)
    using a different turbo as long as it’s fitted to any rover “Bends” the rules.
     
  5. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    ALRC runs off the Green Book, which is basically Bluebook + additional content specific for the ALRC and their events. Therefore just because something isn't mentioned in the Bluebook or is allowed, does not automatically mean it is ALRC eligible.

    On that note, the rules are very clear in my post above. No reason why you can't run such a modification. Just don't expect your modified vehicle to be classified as "standard" class. Really not a hard concept to grasp... ;)

    As for banning. No idea, but there should be no need at all. Not with the current regs, which actually allow quite a lot. And Class-Q allows pretty much any and everything, so long as it is still "Land Rover".

    At the end of the day, it is down the competitors to be honest when entering and presenting their vehicles, i.e. which class you enter as and what you say to the scrutineers. The rules are there primarily for safety, and secondly to promote competition and try and stop ****ers taking the ****.
     
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  6. cartoonhead

    cartoonhead Active Member

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    Thanks a lot for the replies chaps! Lots to consider. I am planning to compete in a ALRC club, which I haven't done for about 5 years, a friend told me that if I end up in the modified class I'll be competing in a class of 1.. So that's what I'm trying to avoid.

    True, but having a performance air filter, uprated intercooler, remap, sports exhaust, egr blank etc etc all alter the powerband, and probably in a more profound way than a variable geometry turbo. My stock turbo was running higher than standard boost (probably why it blew up :oops:). I think I'll reach out to the club next and see what they say? If I have to get another standard one that's not a big deal, just seems a wasted opportunity to fit something a bit better!
     
  7. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    Who is your local club? I'm part of CVLRC, which should be local for Bucks. We always amalgamate standard, modified & Q into 3 simple classes of 'coil', 'leaf', 'lwb'.
    https://www.cvlrc.co.uk/

    So there would be no issues at all with such a modification if competing with us. However as the rules are currently written (remember, as a club member you can always propose to change the rules), you would not be eligible for 'Standard' class. At a bigger event such as a National or some of the 2 day events, you may find resistance on this basis.

    Although ultimately I do not understand why you wouldn't accept being in Modified class? What is the allure of Standard class?
     
  8. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, just seen this bit.

    Ultimately your friend is completely wrong. But for some reason, the ALRC as a whole, at least in regards to RTV. Are completely obsessed with being 'Standard', so long as they can heavily modify their vehicle. It really would be comical if it wasn't so sad :(

    However, as said. At Club level, almost no clubs separate Standard and Modified anyway, as they just don't have enough competitors to do so. So classes get amalgamated.
     
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  9. jai_landrover

    jai_landrover Well-Known Member

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    Surley now he can be in Q class if he wishes to be if there is an issue with std class.

    what class is Josh in? Or Mr E? both have modified turbos On their RTV 90’s.

    I can only see an issue being at a National and nobody would raise an eyebrow even if the regs technically say nay.
     
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