VCU Torque test results

Td4 140000 miles on clock 04 plate. Owut carried out this morning from cold not driven since night before, about 6 Celsius 1.2 mtr and 5kg - 45deg to horizontal 48 sec, timed a few times. then 8kg - 1.2mtr went down in about 21sec

Raylander said:

Td4 140000 miles on clock 04 plate. Owut carried out this morning from cold not driven since night before, about 6 Celsius 1.2 mtr and 5kg - 45deg to horizontal 48 sec, timed a few times. then 8kg - 1.2mtr went down in about 21sec

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That's around what you would expect for a new one. You should be well happy.

I've been a long time viewer/reader of this site as a FL owner for 7 years and it's come in handy for info so thanks to all the posters! I work as a Test and development engineer lately at Jaguar Land rover so have some engineering skills.
Last week I drove from Rugby to Dorset and a slight grumbling bearing grew noiser......this noise had been here for a while admittedly , mainly because the hardest part of a bearing replacement is identifying which bearing needs the work. It became pretty obvious it was one of the prop support bearings and after checking here I assumed it would be the front one. On removing the prop it was clear the rear one was at fault so the prop was left off and I'm running in mondo mode now.
I have to reverse of my gravel drive each day and I always check to see if the "brakes on in reverse" or rear wheel skipping on lock gets worse over time and I have to say it has......soooooo.....whilst the prop was off I checked the vcu and of course its really tight. Using levers either side of the unit and steady force, I cannot get it to turn. And I didn't punch the floor, .
Inspired by reading here and the rain today I started to drain the gloop from the unit after carefully drilling two holes.
My intention is to clean out the unit (using the two holes, I'm in no rush!), and top up with fluid from fleabay and plug the holes with bolts and sealing washers. It seems to be important to effectively seal the vcu, firstly to prevent fluid leaks but secondly and more importantly, to maintain correct operation as pressure seems to play a part in the operation.
I previously mentioned my work at JLR and I have searched for info on previous development work on the GKN unit but to no avail....it was so long ago its lost in the black pit of knowledge.....
I'll let you know how it goes!

Ohsteveo said:

I've been a long time viewer/reader of this site as a FL owner for 7 years and it's come in handy for info so thanks to all the posters! I work as a Test and development engineer lately at Jaguar Land rover so have some engineering skills.
Last week I drove from Rugby to Dorset and a slight grumbling bearing grew noiser......this noise had been here for a while admittedly , mainly because the hardest part of a bearing replacement is identifying which bearing needs the work. It became pretty obvious it was one of the prop support bearings and after checking here I assumed it would be the front one. On removing the prop it was clear the rear one was at fault so the prop was left off and I'm running in mondo mode now.
I have to reverse of my gravel drive each day and I always check to see if the "brakes on in reverse" or rear wheel skipping on lock gets worse over time and I have to say it has......soooooo.....whilst the prop was off I checked the vcu and of course its really tight. Using levers either side of the unit and steady force, I cannot get it to turn. And I didn't punch the floor, .
Inspired by reading here and the rain today I started to drain the gloop from the unit after carefully drilling two holes.
My intention is to clean out the unit (using the two holes, I'm in no rush!), and top up with fluid from fleabay and plug the holes with bolts and sealing washers. It seems to be important to effectively seal the vcu, firstly to prevent fluid leaks but secondly and more importantly, to maintain correct operation as pressure seems to play a part in the operation.
I previously mentioned my work at JLR and I have searched for info on previous development work on the GKN unit but to no avail....it was so long ago its lost in the black pit of knowledge.....
I'll let you know how it goes!

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Not forgetting to post lots of pictures.

Ohsteveo said:

I've been a long time viewer/reader of this site as a FL owner for 7 years and it's come in handy for info so thanks to all the posters! I work as a Test and development engineer lately at Jaguar Land rover so have some engineering skills.
Last week I drove from Rugby to Dorset and a slight grumbling bearing grew noiser......this noise had been here for a while admittedly , mainly because the hardest part of a bearing replacement is identifying which bearing needs the work. It became pretty obvious it was one of the prop support bearings and after checking here I assumed it would be the front one. On removing the prop it was clear the rear one was at fault so the prop was left off and I'm running in mondo mode now.
I have to reverse of my gravel drive each day and I always check to see if the "brakes on in reverse" or rear wheel skipping on lock gets worse over time and I have to say it has......soooooo.....whilst the prop was off I checked the vcu and of course its really tight. Using levers either side of the unit and steady force, I cannot get it to turn. And I didn't punch the floor, .
Inspired by reading here and the rain today I started to drain the gloop from the unit after carefully drilling two holes.
My intention is to clean out the unit (using the two holes, I'm in no rush!), and top up with fluid from fleabay and plug the holes with bolts and sealing washers. It seems to be important to effectively seal the vcu, firstly to prevent fluid leaks but secondly and more importantly, to maintain correct operation as pressure seems to play a part in the operation.
I previously mentioned my work at JLR and I have searched for info on previous development work on the GKN unit but to no avail....it was so long ago its lost in the black pit of knowledge.....
I'll let you know how it goes!

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Nice on mate, good to see another idiot stupid enough to think he can fix one of these things himself.
Did much gloop come out when you drilled the holes? I've done a few now and the first one was so bad hardly anything came out. Others were not so bad and a load came out with just gravity.
What are you going to use to clean the VCU out? I found white spirit was good but have also used petrol and kerosene.
You might want to add your experience to this thread.
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/how-to-recondition-a-vcu-yourself.307445/
As usual for these threads it went off topic quite a few times and a load of photos are lost but still has a lot of useful info.

Alibro said:

Nice on mate, good to see another idiot stupid enough to think he can fix one of these things himself.
Did much gloop come out when you drilled the holes? I've done a few now and the first one was so bad hardly anything came out. Others were not so bad and a load came out with just gravity.
What are you going to use to clean the VCU out? I found white spirit was good but have also used petrol and kerosene.
You might want to add your experience to this thread.
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/how-to-recondition-a-vcu-yourself.307445/
As usual for these threads it went off topic quite a few times and a load of photos are lost but still has a lot of useful info.

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hahaha!...cheek.
Overnight about 50ml has drained out and me going into the garage checking each hour didn't seem to speed it up .
I plan to learn from your experience and use white spirit and heating oil to help drain it with a final flush using brake cleaner and lots of judicious turning of the unit if possible. It is pretty stiff right now so consider myself lucky that it appears no other expensive damage has been done.
I'm unsure if I should use screw in hose tails to drain and flush and then finally fit sump drain plugs or use grease nipples. I like the idea of the grease gun used to fill or adjust the level after testing but can't help thinking the larger diameter holes using the tails will be easier when draining and flushing. As the car gets pretty much zero off road use at the moment ( although my wife may use a horse trailer in the future) I am thinking of using the 60,000 cst fluid in the hope of giving the ird an easy life but still having the option of 4wd when required......bearing in mind I'm sure there will be some residual old fluid left in the unit, what's your opinion on this rather than the supposed oem choice of 100 k cst?

I understand that there is a certain amount of suck it and see and adjusting levels after fitting the vcu back on the vehicle but in the absence of any clear indication ALL the old fluid is out , this is the clearest way.
BTW, the Freelander is a TD4 HSE auto.2002

Ohsteveo said:

hahaha!...cheek.
Overnight about 50ml has drained out and me going into the garage checking each hour didn't seem to speed it up .
I plan to learn from your experience and use white spirit and heating oil to help drain it with a final flush using brake cleaner and lots of judicious turning of the unit if possible. It is pretty stiff right now so consider myself lucky that it appears no other expensive damage has been done.
I'm unsure if I should use screw in hose tails to drain and flush and then finally fit sump drain plugs or use grease nipples. I like the idea of the grease gun used to fill or adjust the level after testing but can't help thinking the larger diameter holes using the tails will be easier when draining and flushing. As the car gets pretty much zero off road use at the moment ( although my wife may use a horse trailer in the future) I am thinking of using the 60,000 cst fluid in the hope of giving the ird an easy life but still having the option of 4wd when required......bearing in mind I'm sure there will be some residual old fluid left in the unit, what's your opinion on this rather than the supposed oem choice of 100 k cst?

I understand that there is a certain amount of suck it and see and adjusting levels after fitting the vcu back on the vehicle but in the absence of any clear indication ALL the old fluid is out , this is the clearest way.
BTW, the Freelander is a TD4 HSE auto.2002

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Some folk here have used 60k and even 30k fluid. I've no experience of them so can't comment but have had no issues with 100k fluid.
I have used heating oil, petrol and diesel to clean the disks but only in a bath after cutting the top off and they were fine for that as they were thoroughly dried afterwards. I don't know if heating oil would be OK for flushing as I've only used white spirit for that but can't think of any reason it would cause a problem, maybe someone with more chemistry knowledge would know.
Whatever you use for refilling it is a slow process. You have to get the fluid right to the bottom of the VCU and inbetween every disk. This take time and effort with lots of turning regardless if you pump it in with a grease gun or a syringe. Don't forget the air has to get out as the fluid goes in so unless you drill the holes at opposite ends of the VCU you'll find the fluid wants to come out the other hole. It always ends up a messy process what ever way you do it as the fluid is very thick.
I've used both sump plugs and grease nipples and I prefer sump plugs. The grease nipples tend to be very shallow with few threads so I always worry about stripping the threads. Also the sump plugs I found were bigger (M20) so made life easier for cleaning and refilling.
As for residual fluid, if you take your time and clean it over a week or so, then leave it to drain for several days turning it as often as you can before finally blasting it with compressed air (and more turning) it will not have much residual fluid in it. If you plan to to a horse box and pony I would go with 100k fluid as you will probably be towing out of muddy fields from time to time. If you plan to tow a full size horse in something like an Ivor Williams 510 you really should be looking for a bigger car as the trailer will exceed your towing limits.
Finally I just pump in as near 150mls as I can assess, add a bit more then seal it up and bolt it on. After a few miles I do the OWU test to check if it's too tight, if it is I let some fluid out. I've had no issues using this method.

Ok thanks, all good information......
Seeing as the freelander getting on a bit I may try to convince my wife to look for a 3.5 tonne van....bit safer than towing anyway, ....btw, don't often see 4x4 horse vans around !
I think I'll use larger holes opposing each other and hose tail connectors finally fitting sump plugs as I also am dubious of the nipples shallow threads...ooeeer missus. :-
Currently still draining very slooooooowwwwly.

Ohsteveo said:

Ok thanks, all good information......
Seeing as the freelander getting on a bit I may try to convince my wife to look for a 3.5 tonne van....bit safer than towing anyway, ....btw, don't often see 4x4 horse vans around !
I think I'll use larger holes opposing each other and hose tail connectors finally fitting sump plugs as I also am dubious of the nipples shallow threads...ooeeer missus. :-
Currently still draining very slooooooowwwwly.

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We sold the trailer and bought a 6 tonne lorry when daughter progressed to horses. It's an ancient Merc 214 but works and the Mrs and daughter love it. The 3.5 tonne vans don't have living so she won't have anywhere to change and you won't be able to use it for sleep overs but they are very handy.
Your right though about 4x4 vans, even fewer 4x4 lorries.

Time to start flushing.

2002 w/ 215k km. VCU never been changed. Been afraid to do the owut -- with good reason it looks like: with 5 L of water hanging off a lever at 1,2 m it took 2,5 minutes. I'm ordering a rebuilt VCU from Bell this month, was hoping it would hold just a lttle longer but yikes now I may pull it off first. Depends on how much I think I need to drive it.

Coucherias said:

2002 w/ 215k km. VCU never been changed. Been afraid to do the owut -- with good reason it looks like: with 5 L of water hanging off a lever at 1,2 m it took 2,5 minutes. I'm ordering a rebuilt VCU from Bell this month, was hoping it would hold just a lttle longer but yikes now I may pull it off first. Depends on how much I think I need to drive it.

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I'd pull it off quickly before the IRD or diff disintegrate.

Update......not much of an update, but.....
I'm not in too much of a rush to complete this but gathered all the parts (except the fluid!) and drilled and tapped the unit so I can use hose tails to flush and eventually, sump plugs to seal the unit after refurbishment.
It's taking a long time to get the fluid out of the unit with lots of turning and flushing with white spirit which is cheap and brake cleaner, which is not.
The force needed to turn is decreasing and I have tried placing the unit in the warm sun last weekend to see if this made a difference but it didn't seem to speed up the process.
Looks like a rainy weekend this weekend so maybe I'll spend some more time in the garage....

Ohsteveo said:

flushing with white spirit which is cheap and brake cleaner, which is not

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Isopropyl alcohol is cheap and is the main ingredient of brake cleaner.

Ohsteveo said:

Update......not much of an update, but.....
I'm not in too much of a rush to complete this but gathered all the parts (except the fluid!) and drilled and tapped the unit so I can use hose tails to flush and eventually, sump plugs to seal the unit after refurbishment.
It's taking a long time to get the fluid out of the unit with lots of turning and flushing with white spirit which is cheap and brake cleaner, which is not.
The force needed to turn is decreasing and I have tried placing the unit in the warm sun last weekend to see if this made a difference but it didn't seem to speed up the process.
Looks like a rainy weekend this weekend so maybe I'll spend some more time in the garage....

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Keep going and it will be fine. Last couple of times I did it over a week or two, flushing and turning for an hour or so every night.

Alibro said:

I think some peeps are getting overly stressed by the lack of a simple definitive test. The test doesn't have to be definitive, all we need is one which is good enough to tell us if the car is about to sh1t itself.
The one wheel up test is good enough for this so I don't see the point in pursuing perfection just for the sake of it. Remember whatever test you use is only a snapshot of the situation at that point in time, in 12 months it might have changed significantly depending on how the car is used, tyres etc.
Maybe ignorance is bliss. Look at all the hundreds of thousands of people who have owned Freelanders and never heard of a VCU. The vast majority never had a problem with it.

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Guineafowl21 suggested that you are the VCU guru.
I was thinking about the VCU. I saw a guy that took them apart and refilled them, I was wondering whether you could drill a hole at the bottom and tap it out for a grease nipple then do the same on the opposite side at the top, drill it and tap it but don't screw in the nipple. After putting in the bottom nipple fill a high pressure grease gun with the recomended product and start pumping through the nipple until the new stuff starts coming out of the top. Put in the top nipple, press in the small ball bearing in the top of the nipple until new product comes out and see if you can get one more stroke on the grease gun.
Do you think that this is possible or am I just bonkers. I have posted this to Hippo, he has not yet sent me a straight Jacket.
Warm regards from France
Paul

Paulindre said:

Guineafowl21 suggested that you are the VCU guru.
I was thinking about the VCU. I saw a guy that took them apart and refilled them, I was wondering whether you could drill a hole at the bottom and tap it out for a grease nipple then do the same on the opposite side at the top, drill it and tap it but don't screw in the nipple. After putting in the bottom nipple fill a high pressure grease gun with the recomended product and start pumping through the nipple until the new stuff starts coming out of the top. Put in the top nipple, press in the small ball bearing in the top of the nipple until new product comes out the release the bearing and see if you can get one more stroke on the grease gun.
Do you think that this is possible or am I just bonkers. I have posted this to Hippo, he has not yet sent me a straight Jacket.
Warm regards from France
Paul

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Hi Paul
Take a look at this thread. It is similar to what your suggesting but a bit more involved. Because most of the fluid is inbetween the fifty or so disks in the VCU it would be impossible to force it all through. You need to clean it out with something like white spirit before refilling with new fluid.
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/how-to-recondition-a-vcu-yourself.307445/

Volume in must equal volume out. There is an air gap for a reason!

Alibro said:

Hi Paul
Take a look at this thread. It is similar to what your suggesting but a bit more involved. Because most of the fluid is inbetween the fifty or so disks in the VCU it would be impossible to force it all through. You need to clean it out with something like white spirit before refilling with new fluid.
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/how-to-recondition-a-vcu-yourself.307445/

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Great minds think alike, the post you sent is pretty well exactly what was thinking. I was going to find out about the flushing when I found out what solvent to use so you have answered all of my questions except pehaps for 2.
1,could I drill out on the circumference of the VCU rather than the sides giving perhaps better drainage?
2. I have recently purchased a 12v oil suction pump and I was wondering if I stick the vacuum tube in one hole and the outlet tube in the other thus forming a loop of continual circulation of the white spirit. I was thinking of knocking up a container of a few liters of spirit in the closed circulating system and turning the discs at the same time. With the container it will be easy to change the solvent until it is circulating clear. I very much look forward to your comments.
Warm regards
Paul

Paulindre said:

Great minds think alike, the post you sent is pretty well exactly what was thinking. I was going to find out about the flushing when I found out what solvent to use so you have answered all of my questions except pehaps for 2.
1,could I drill out on the circumference of the VCU rather than the sides giving perhaps better drainage?
2. I have recently purchased a 12v oil suction pump and I was wondering if I stick the vacuum tube in one hole and the outlet tube in the other thus forming a loop of continual circulation of the white spirit. I was thinking of knocking up a container of a few liters of spirit in the closed circulating system and turning the discs at the same time. With the container it will be easy to change the solvent until it is circulating clear. I very much look forward to your comments.
Warm regards
Paul

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It's been done.

I guess this would work but the guy in the video should have been turning the VCU to mix it properly, the disks are very tightly packed so it takes a lot of turning and flushing to clean it out.



Oh, And fools seldom differ.

The Mad Hat Man said:

Volume in must equal volume out. There is an air gap for a reason!

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Agree 100%. However it is not easy to calculate. I guess if you had accurate scales you could weigh the VCU before starting and again after cleaning. You can also weigh the fluid before you start and again after you have pumped the new stuff in but it can be a messy business so there will always be some lost fluid.
I usually put in a little too much as it is easy to let some out after testing if it is too tight.