P38A V8 Problem: Turner Engineering: 20k miles: Broken timing chain

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I feel your pain!
Mine wasn't a Turner engine although I wish I had gone for a full engine from Turners as i've heard nothing but praise for them so far...
I got all my bits for the engine rebuild from Turners (Cam, Followers, Push Rods, Oil Pump Gears, gaskets etc) & have had no problem with these. My problem as been with the block - head bolt threads pulling out over time & 3 head gasket failures in 30k miles. I bought a top hat block, pistons , crank etc from a guy who builds engines for TVR track cars etc. Lesson learned for me was that it's not straight forward to just machine top hats into an old engine block as the block needs to be fully tested. I had a chat with V8 Tuners who I just bought my ARP studs from & they were saying a lot of blocks come in that are no good for rebuilding due to being overheated & stressed (as soon as they start machining it becomes apparent the material is too soft). As already said, many RV8's are available for re-manufacture because they've been taken out of a scrapper - usually due to engine failure in the first place.
Hope you can get somewhere with Turners, I would imagine they want to protect their reputation. Trouble is, with engines, there are so many other factors that can cause early failure so proper investigation with Turners would be the best plan IMO. The warranty is often dubious as often it's dependent on many other components being renewed during fitting. Remember my indie saying Turners small print stated something like the entire cooling system needed renewing when fitting to get the full warranty.
 
Thanks Martyn. I read your thread after it was mentioned earlier - it almost made me feel better about my experience! At least nice to know I'm not the only one been bitten.

Having sorted out the rest of the car, this was a determined project to get a really nice, reliable engine in there, so I did replace the whole cooling system etc. because I was going to anyway while access was good and also because overheating by a previous owner was what probably killed the original engine (leaking bulkhead o-rings, not noticed, low coolant, boiled and then when I had it afterwards, astonishing oil consumption probably as a result). Water pump came from Turners, radiator from elsewhere.

As the warranty has recently expired, it's probably moot whether I met the warranty terms now anyway (I did - very carefully). I did everything I possibly could to make this engine work well and last but it didn't, and that effort and cost seems to count for nothing. That's the bit that really frustrates me - you put in the time, money and effort and still get a result I could have expected from a no-name supplier for thousands of pounds less.
 
So, I now have the bad news, and it is VERY BAD news.

Timing chain is broken and oil pump is in pieces (all new parts from Turner Engineering) . So that'll mean bent valves, and all the associated woes - at least a full top-end rebuild. After only 20k miles that is just not good enough. Photos on their way to me.

I'll post again when I have a further reaction from Turner's, but unless they step up well to this problem - and there is really only one place to point the finger of blame so I think they should - this P38 is sadly going to be a write off and worth next-to-nothing with a bust engine.
 
I do feel for you fella,
Am i right in thinking this was a fully assembled engine supplied by Turners & just fitted by your mechanic?
If so,seems to me it's down to Turners to sort out. They cant really point the finger at incorrectly assembly done elsewhere.
 
martynv8 said:
I do feel for you fella,
Am i right in thinking this was a fully assembled engine supplied by Turners & just fitted by your mechanic?
If so,seems to me it's down to Turners to sort out. They cant really point the finger at incorrectly assembly done elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Yes, Fully assembled. Just needed ancillaries fitting and installing in the car. No way for my mechanic to have got this bit wrong. Mechanic is top notch too and knows these engines inside out (usually builds concourse classic Astons and Jags - but has affection for Landies (and V8s!) having worked at Wood & Picket on RR Classic conversions in the day) . Also runs his own 5 litre RV8 in a TVR.

I was there at first start-up and he even measured the fluids going in with a measuring jug to the last few ml to make sure all looked right - and I thought I was a bit OCD on these things!
 
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albany said:
Yes, Fully assembled. Just needed ancillaries fitting and installing in the car. No way for my mechanic to have got this bit wrong. Mechanic is top notch too and knows these engines inside out (usually builds concourse classic Astons and Jags - but has affection for Landies (and V8s!) having worked at Wood & Picket on RR Classic conversions in the day) . Also runs his own 5 litre RV8 in a TVR.

I was there at first start-up and he even measured the fluids going in with a measuring jug to the last few ml to make sure all looked right - and I thought I was a bit OCD on these things!
Click to expand...
Sounds like you have a good argument to Turners then. Keep us posted. Would be good to see them step up to sort this.
 
So sorry to read your latest news - and I do so hope that this awful situation that you find yourself in will be resolved in the appropriate manner and speedily also, to boot.
 
IMG_5060.JPG Sump off - That dangling chain shouldn't be there...:(

IMG_5055.JPG Can just see the mangled end of the chain in this photo.
 
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If you were refurbing the engine I'd imagine you'd do the timing chain anyway. So, it might have been substandard in which case they can go back to the people they got it from and bill them.
 
So, There's better news.

I had a long chat with Richard Turner yesterday who does indeed seem like a decent bloke. General conclusion is that the front cover failed which took out the chain (and then of course will probably have taken out the valve train as the engine turned). I think this was the general consensus from posts above in any case.

There's at least one post above mentioning a front cover failure and Richard mentioned that it is rare but not unknown for them to fail. The Turner's source is the same source as a genuine LR part apparently so I suppose it isn't possible to get something better. In hindsight, I might have been better off re-using the old cover and oil pump - although that feels like pretty poor practice for a rebuilt engine. Perhaps the originals were better quality?

It is apparently very unlikely that any damage will have occurred to the bottom end so all that should be required is to check/repair the heads and valve train and replace the front cover and timing chain etc.. The better news is that Turner's have offered to supply all the parts to do that including repairing the heads. So if I had the time and inclination to do the rebuild myself, it could be done for the cost of my time and some new fluids. As it is, I will need to pay someone to remove the heads and front cover and put it all back together with a new chain and sprockets, so there's a hefty labour bill - but less than the car is worth so not a write-off. Once that's done, it should be as good as it was before.

So with traders pulling together and helping us mad P38 addicts (and a shout out to Paul Wright at Legacy Motors is due too - who has been very fair with his proposal to rebuild the engine with the new parts), this old girl should get back on the road.

I'll let you know when it's actually running - I feel it's still a little too early to be sure there's no other damage.
 
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