Classic -Two Problems Spring Related-87MY 3.5L V8 Manual

As above, my RRC has developed a major dip on the O/S/R. Now, since it had a lift kit fitted several owners before myself, its very noticeable - what can be causing this?.

And that brings us to the second problem...how much of a lift has it got? How does one measure such a thing? It would be nice to know as I may have to source a replacement rear spring...which brings us neatly full circle...

I have had a good root around and cannot see any damage to the spring itself, the shock looks OK, the spring mounts are all there and the body mounts appear to be, too.

Could the spring have lost its temper, as it were? and gone soggy? Or is there a well known fault that I am unaware of and cannot find by use of the search button? Anyone ?

The spring could of failed or the broke with the broken bit falling off, measure both sides.
How lifted is it, to be fair if one has failed snapped I would suspec all will go in the near future so change the lot.

pete1987RRC said:

How lifted is it

Click to expand...

...and therein lies (one of) the problem(s)!

I just dont know how lifted it is. Maybe an inch, two at most I would have thought. The signature at the bottom of my posts says 2"...but that was a guess!
I bought the vehicle years ago and the fellow before me wasnt sure and had lost the paperwork. One of the reasons I got it cheap. And then it was laid up for a couple of years while I was too ill to do the necessary repairs to MOT it. So, having had some head injuries in the meantimes, much has gone by the board. That is to say, I have forgotten anything that I did know.

Thanks for getting onboard, Pete. I was thinking that way myself. I have a set of new H.D front springs, so I could measure them and compare with the ones on there with the weight taken off. But are H.D springs the same length as regular ones?

TBH I dont think the spring in question is missing any, it looks whole and has the right amount of coils, but I will measure it against the other rear, as you suggest. It does look like its compressed more than the other, as though there was an anvil in the back of the O/S/R.

It's worth posting some pictures up - worth a thousand words and all that...

worth also checking the spring mounts onto the axle casing...

As Pete1987RRC says - if the spring has broken, the I'd agree that the rest are probably not far behind..... so change the lot

Yes, I agree on the change the lot thing, but since I have not had any catastrophic problems (except the lousy handling) I think that the necessary adaptations to bushes and castor angle etc etc were done as part of the lifting process...

...so do I not risk having the "lifty breaky" syndrome in reverse?

And yes, photos, I will do some. However I am a) embarrassed at the state of my vehicle, and b) I have forgotten how to post pics. Head injuries, stroke, memory loss, etc

My 3.5 RR had what appeared to to be the OS rear spring failure, so both rear springs were replaced with the standard progressive springs, easily available from the LR dealers parts dept back the then.
After the rear springs were replaced only a slight difference was noted, the vehicles still leaned on the off side, so the front springs were then replaced and supplied every thing was back to normal just as the day it left the factory.
So why not replace the springs?




Sent from my iPad Air in Malta.

Yes, I will replace the springs. However, I suspect that all the stuff that needs changing when one does a lift...was changed. Sooo...I worry that if I put standard sized springs in then I will cause no end of problems with the rest of the suspension that I have reason to believe was modded to suit the lift. That I am unsure of the amount of. Lift, that is. Does that make any sense?

I have a set of new H.D yellow front springs (of normal height) on the shelf, so I could just fit them and a matching set of rears. But will that open another can of worms? Or is it not worth worrying at this stage?

When this tilt first showed folks told me that RRCs did that regularly. But I really dont think that this amount of lean is acceptable. Even though I managed to tell the MOT bloke "Oh, they all do that" and get away with it. I reckon he just felt sorry for me.

Thanks to everyone for weighing in on this, its been doing my swede something chronic. What with all the other stuff that needs doing,e.g: welding, rewiring and all the other joys of a British Leyland vehicle with Lucas magic smoke electrics.

Long before I found these forums, my old RRC always leaned slightly. Back then most of my parts came from either Dingocroft or Paddock.

Bought a complete new set of "standard" springs from Paddock spares but after fitting, it still leaned over slightly. Even swapped them L-R, but never found out why. Somebody at my MOT place did say only LR springs will sort it, but never go around to trying that.

shocker said:

Yes, I will replace the springs. However, I suspect that all the stuff that needs changing when one does a lift...was changed. Sooo...I worry that if I put standard sized springs in then I will cause no end of problems with the rest of the suspension that I have reason to believe was modded to suit the lift. That I am unsure of the amount of. Lift, that is. Does that make any sense?

Click to expand...

Yep, makes sense to me.... put some pics up, I promise I won't laugh too much at the state of it - but with pics we can probably tell what has been altered in the "lifting it" process.

If you don't need the lift - now is a good time to get shut IMHO

Pic upload is done by clicking the "Upload a File" button in the reply to thread box where you'll type some suitably acerbic remark to my suggestion to get shut of the lift

Standard rangie springs are different near side off side apparently, off inside bing stronger due to expected driver and its,heavier on that side, or so I am told?

Mine also has a slight list to starboard...

Good stuff,lads ! I will endeavour to scare my cranky camera into working and post some pics. Somehow.

Then I will hide in the corner under a blanket until the resulting hilarity calms down.

pete1987RRC said:

Standard rangie springs are different near side off side apparently, off inside bing stronger due to expected driver and its,heavier on that side, or so I am told?

Mine also has a slight list to starboard...

Click to expand...

This website shows spring rates and confirms different spring rates for L & R rears on 1987 - 1991 models.

http://www.red90.ca/rovers/springinfo.html

But note it's a US site so left and right will be different!

Cheers

Pete

Have a look on Island 4x4 site they have lift kits and springs for all classics even old man emu ones

Been out with the measuring stick :
N/S/R spring in place, 12.5" or 320mm. Gap between coils 1.5" or 40mm. 8 coils as seen from rear
O/S/R spring in place, 10.5" or 270mm. Gap between coils 1" or 25mm. 8 coils as seen from rear

Hmmm, some problem here I think. No spring material missing but over compressed, mounts are solid and not deformed. Paint cracked off both despite recent waxoyl and shutz. Front springs good and even, paint smooth and un-cracked.

Looking at Rimmers they have some normal height aftermarket, HD/Police Spec rears for around £20 each (I already have a set of HD fronts on the shelf).
I am not fussed about the lift, I have a tractor to do field work, I just got it when I bought the vehicle. So is there any reason NOT to fit HDs? I do have some heavy towing at times....

However Rimmers arent great for shipping costs, whereas Paddocks are free over £60 and I need a waterpump and some other bits too. As usual.
Paddocks have aftermarket rear springs, red stripe £18, pink/purple stripe £22 each.
Island do Britpart HD 385mm (regular height) rears for around £55 the pair and do free shipping over £60
All inc. VAT.
They also have Britpart 40mm lift rears 435mm height for £50 that would match the fronts already fitted that seem fine (so far).
And Pete and the rest are right, LR list the N/S and O/S as seperate numbers.

I shall now and go look at this spring info on here, if I can find it this time.

Thats the issue up to date, photos when batteries charged. Any input greatly appreciated.

When I came back to LR (as my daily) from a lousy foreign experience 2/3 years ago, the D1 I bought had similar problems - the springs were very tired - they had lost there temper, and the vehicle sat in a very weird stance - not quite as obvious as yours, but still obviously wrong....

New br*tpart standard springs ( <£20 each ) sorted it - and it now rides rather well. If you're satisfied that the chassis and all the mounts ( inc Axle ) are good - then do all the springs, and as I said above, IMHO, unless you need the lift, ditch it.

What do you mean by heavy towing ? if it's within the vehicles listed capabilities, then I'd just fit standard springs, and replace as necessary - if you're going to load the back with "junk" AND tow, then HD might be better - but they are, IME, too stiff for "normal" use...

By heavy towing I mean towing up to the rated capability of the vehicle. I live in rural Cornwall, my family farm livestock and it has to be moved at times. Also I own a large showmans living trailer that I will be towing across europe in the next couple of years. My health and disability mean that any work done needs to stay done as I am less able as time goes by. At a faster rate than the usual aging progress would account for.

And yes, the vehicle will be loaded at times, but not with "junk". "Tools" and "people" spring to mind as examples. I dont mean to sound ungrateful for your input, though. Interesting what you say about the dreaded Sh!tpart...reading between the lines on Craddocks and other sites, the HD front springs are the same as normal rears. Even J.M says they are proper ! B-part springs, that is.
On the Br!tpart front, to head off the inevitible slagging, I have found that a lot of their parts are fine...its the ones with moving parts inside them I have had trouble with, like the notorious 300tdi water pumps.

Norseman , yes, I have experienced the normal "dip", thats what lead me to leave this thing so long as I have. Thanks for the info mate.

Now I have got to decide whether I just get some lift rear springs to match the fronts, or fit regulars all round. I am well versed in doing the work but physical disability and lack of funds from not being able to work as I would like to mean that I cannot go looking for extra tasks. And doing the fronts when they are in good condition will mean more effort and lots of ancillary parts too. Always does with vintage LR. And each day worked is a week in bed recovering.

I wish I knew what the actual lift was to start with ! I have assumed 2"-ish b ut I really do not know for sure!

See the final post in this thread - it may give you something to work on:-

http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/8-range-rover-classic/32817-1990-rrc-stock-ride-height.html

Pete

Britpart standard springs and shocks have transformed my disco for £130, can't grumble at that! Almost rude not to replace the lot. The disco drivers side spring is taller than the passenger side.