Turning over in position 2, won't start, still turning when take key out

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SiMcDonald

New Member
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13
Location
East Devon
I posted yesterday but doesn't appear to be here.

I'll keep it brief

Problem at the moment is this. When I try to start the engine the starter motor kicks in with the key in position 2 but it doesn't start and keeps trying even after turning ignition off. In the last few days it HAS started like this from a jump start but that doesn't happen now.

Disco had been sat on drive for about a month, so put batt on charge for 24 hours and it started ok albeit after cranking for 3-5 seconds but it had been doing that before it was sat around. Read all sorts of posts last night and checked the current drop between -ve terminal and -ve lead after they wre disconnected and got 0.45A so could be losing power, so think need to check fusible links but neither owners manual or haynes tells me which is which just that they have numbers allocated.

I suspect an ignition problem combined with electrical power loss and possible fuel issue if taking time to start.

I haven't tried putting jump leads to starter motor yet will try that later.

Thanks
 
remove relay R2(starter) and put R3(headlamp wash) instead to rule out the possibility that R2 is stuck closed, if no joy remove R2 and try so to rule out a short to supply on the starter solenoid circuit...haynes or the owners handbook doesnt help, download a RAVE(workshop manual) from here: land rover rave technical system (disc 1) and you have everything there, all systems description and operation, pics, drawings, exploded diagrams even the complete electric diagrams and connector views....if you have basic knowledge of troubleshooting you'll find the culprit...maybe somewhere it's a short circuit on the starter solenoid supply
RAVE said:
Starter relay operation
When the ignition switch is moved to the crank position III, a feed passes from
the switch, through fuse 23 in the passenger compartment fusebox to the coil
of the starter relay in the engine compartment fusebox on a WR wire.
The coil is earthed to the BCU on a BO wire. When the BCU determines that
starter operation is allowed, the earth path is completed and the starter relay
energises, closing the relay contacts.
The feed from fusible link 12 passes through the starter relay contacts and is
connected from the engine compartment fusebox to the coil of the starter motor
solenoid on an NR wire. The coil energises, closing the starter motor solenoid
contacts. The coil is earthed via the starter motor body.
The feed from the battery positive terminal passes through the closed contacts
of the starter motor solenoid and operates the starter motor. The starter motor
is earthed through the motor body attachment.
When the ignition switch is released, it returns to position II. This terminates the
feed from the ignition switch to the starter relay coil, de-energising the coil and
opening the relay contacts. This in turn removes the feed from fusible link 12 to
the starter motor solenoid coil, opening the solenoid contacts and removing the
battery feed to the starter motor.
Click to expand...
 
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Only had time to swap r2 & r3. It didn't start turning over until pos 3, but wouldn't start, that could be the battery. Turned back to pos 2 all dash lights were on az normal but then starter tried going on its own until battery warning came on.

RAVE i spent 25 mins downloading only to find i couldn't carry on cos the netbook doesn't have a disc drive but did find diagram in Haynes finally
 
Before I go to the expense of buying a new ignition switch, I tried starting with R2 removed. Electrics came on in position 2 but not the starter and nothing when turn to position 3. So I can rule out faulty relay. Is there anything else I can do to help diagnose the problem?
 
you didnt rule out the relay you ruled out a short circuit after the relay's contact to the starter solenoid... as long as it starts with the relay in situ it means the relay gets impulse on the coil ..., put the relay back and when it makes the trick remove fuse F23 from interior fusebox, if it stops then it means the ignition switch is sticking
 
Thanks for that. Tried taking out F23 while it was trying to start in position 2 and it carried on. Hope I don't have to change ignition just got a quote of £215+VAT for new genuine ignition with 2 keys one with fob.
 
as long as the starter turned with ignition on pos 2 but stopped when you removed F23 you dont have to measure anything... replace the switch
 
we misunderstood each other then, i thought it stopped with F23 removed... then the switch is not the problem:(.... in this case the most obvious is that you need another fusebox, to make other tests you need RAVE for connector views and unplug C0588 to get closer to the fault...if with C0588 unplugged the starter stops but works with it connected and fuse F23 removed the short is within the interior fusebox...if it still turns with C0588 unplugged the problem is within the engine bay fusebox
 
Last edited:
SiMcDonald said:
Thanks for that. Tried taking out F23 while it was trying to start in position 2 and it carried on. Hope I don't have to change ignition just got a quote of £215+VAT for new genuine ignition with 2 keys one with fob.
Click to expand...

I am confused. F23 removed, starter keeps running. You can have my spare ignition loom for a fiver.
 
the fact is that according to the diagram the feed from ignition switch to the starter relay's coil goes through F23(no other joints) and the earth path is from the BCU, so if the starter works with F23 removed it means that the relay'd coil gets feed from somewhere else which can be only due to a short to supply somewhere)... as the starter stops with the relay removed and the relay is not stuck closed ... i explained in my previous post how to find where(provided the diagram is not wrong as it wo'nt be the first time, happened to me on other ocasions too... and then it becomes a lottery)

see attached diagram it's not very complicated the White/red wire from ignition switch crank position is to activate the starter solenoid and goes through F23 to the starter relay's coil and the Brown/red wire from starter relay's contact(C0571-pin2, second pic.) goes directly to the solenoid...for the starter motor to spin the solenoid must get feed from the relay's contact the rest is pure logic as if you have feed on the brown/red exciter wire with F23 removed it means that the relay gets feed form somewhere else whih IMO can be a short to supply into one of the fuseboxes...i told you how to rule them out
 

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Water ingress in the internal (infernal?) fusebox? Gives all sorts of weird symptoms. A good used fusebox is less than £20 from a decent breaker.
 
Thanks every one, water ingress is a definite possibilty in this thing. There's a couple of local breakers that deal with discos will call them later. I'll do the C0588 test first to see which one I need.
 
Well before I could even access C0588 to remove it, it became apparent there was water damage in the in-car fuse box so while i try to source a replacement, thankfully a lot cheaper than a new ignition, I need to clean up the crud on the multiplugs. What is the best method to do this?
 
use contact spray...it means you have a short in the fusebox...it will not be cheaper than a new ignition switch (£12.99) as that was suspect not the barrel ... make sure you get the proper fusebox for your car cos there are some differences between facelift and earlyer modell's fuseboxed...there is a part number stamped on the fusebox

after you plug back the fusebox leave the ignition on pos II for 5 minutes as the IDM to re-establish communication with the BCU.
 
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