Freelander 1 Transfer box help

Got a whining noise coming from under my car which start from when you set off and doesnt stop at speed. I've removed the prop and it's not as loud but is still there. Does this should like the common transfer box problem. I've got a blanking plate to remove the pinion see if it might be that. Anyone else any thoughs on this. Thanks

Yes, it could be. If you take the pinion out, it leaves quite a big hole. You might be able to poke something in and see if there's play in the shaft with the crownwheel on it. The bearing that fails first in most IRDs is the big taper roller bearing closest to the crownwheel.

I'd drain the oil first, and see what colour it is. Black is ok, but metallic particles in the oil shows worn or collapsed bearings.

Crack the fill bolt before draining any oil. They are very soft and round off for fun - so don't end up with no oil in the thing and therefore no way of moving it under it own power.

Will drain the oil when I do the 2wd conversion and see what it's like. Really don't fancey having to pay out for a transfer box at the min

Mthompson said:

Will drain the oil when I do the 2wd conversion and see what it's like. Really don't fancey having to pay out for a transfer box at the min

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As GG said. Make sure you remove the IRD filler plug before draining the oil, although it is possible to get an mount of oil in through the rear of the casing, once the rear output pinion is removed.

Cheers will give it ago as soon as I get chance. Blankinh plate came to day so now just to find time to get under it. What's best oil to use

Mthompson said:

What's best oil to use

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75w90 fully synthetic. Although if the oil that comes out it full of particulate matter (metal flecks), the you'll need to change it a few times, which means a semi-synthetic oil can be used for short time spans.

Here's some I prepared earlier! (oil with metallic flecks in it, that is). That's what mine looked out when the bearing started breaking up!


Quite pretty really ...in a large-hole-in-the-wallet kind of way!

Here's the magnetic drain plug:

Even in a IRD in good condition there can be/will be a build up of metallic sludge on the drain plug - its a case of how much and what the oil looks like.

I say this not to be-little the previous post in any way because its pretty obvious there stuff on there that shouldn't be! But just not to condemn an IRD just because there's a bit of sludge on the drain bolt.

GrumpyGel said:

Even in a IRD in good condition there can be/will be a build up of metallic sludge on the drain plug - its a case of how much and what the oil looks like.

I say this not to be-little the previous post in any way because its pretty obvious there stuff on there that shouldn't be! But just not to condemn an IRD just because there's a bit of sludge on the drain bolt.

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OK, understood, but what I should have also said, is that the photos above were taken after the oil had been in for only 2000 miles! I changed the IRD oil when I first got it (as it had never been done!) and it came out with similar amounts of metal in it, but blacker. I then ran it for 2000 miles and dropped the oil, and the above was the result. Sure, I can accept that a bit of sludge on the magnetic plug might be a reasonable expectation - (or else, why put a magnetic plug in there!) but if the plug has "caught" as much as it can hold and the oil is STILL full of particles, I guess that's a sure indicator of a problem?

Here's the failed bearing when I got it out. There was visible play in the crownwheel when I dismantled it. Probably a couple of mm at the rim of the crownwheel.

Avocet1 said:

OK, understood, but what I should have also said, is that the photos above were taken after the oil had been in for only 2000 miles! I changed the IRD oil when I first got it (as it had never been done!) and it came out with similar amounts of metal in it, but blacker. I then ran it for 2000 miles and dropped the oil, and the above was the result. Sure, I can accept that a bit of sludge on the magnetic plug might be a reasonable expectation - (or else, why put a magnetic plug in there!) but if the plug has "caught" as much as it can hold and the oil is STILL full of particles, I guess that's a sure indicator of a problem?

Here's the failed bearing when I got it out. There was visible play in the crownwheel when I dismantled it. Probably a couple of mm at the rim of the crownwheel.

View attachment 197531


View attachment 197532

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I was reading an article on how bearings fail. It said they basically overheat and deteriorate. You can see in those pics how that may have happened with chunks having been stripped from them. They haven't just 'worn down' or else presumably they would be all shiny.

GrumpyGel said:

I say this not to be-little the previous post in any way because its pretty obvious there stuff on there that shouldn't be! But just not to condemn an IRD just because there's a bit of sludge on the drain bolt.

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What's on the drain plug has some use as an indicator of condition. However the mag-plug is there to remove ferrous material left over from manufacturing and "break in" period. As you say, the condition of the oil is far more telling as to the condition of the bearings.

GrumpyGel said:

I was reading an article on how bearings fail. It said they basically overheat and deteriorate. You can see in those pics how that may have happened with chunks having been stripped from them. They haven't just 'worn down' or else presumably they would be all shiny.

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the bearing wears over time till hard facing is worn through the softer center does then pit,the increased friction creates heat and burns oil into the surface

GrumpyGel said:

I was reading an article on how bearings fail. It said they basically overheat and deteriorate. You can see in those pics how that may have happened with chunks having been stripped from them. They haven't just 'worn down' or else presumably they would be all shiny.

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Yeah, it's not something I know much about. I had a feeling that the rollers and races were only surface-hardened, so as they wear, they look pretty shiny and normal, but as soon as the hard layer is worn through, they start to break up like mine did. It's a bit of a "chicken-and-egg" situation, I think. As the bearings wear and the meshing teeth go out of alignment, there's a bit more friction between the teeth as they rub over each other, which generates a bit more heat. I don't know if it's that which "cooks" the oil, or whether the oil starts to lose its lubricating properties, so there's more heat anyway? (Or a bit of both)? I'm assuming the darker colour of the oil, is down to degradation by running excessively hot? The first oil had been in there (as far as I know!) for 150,000 miles. I could forgive it for being black and not very good at lubricating! The second oil (in the photos) had only been in for 2000 miles, but was also pretty black - although I don't know if that was overheating or just picking up blackness from the dregs of the previous oil?

They look like extreme examples of the first couple of photos in this article:

https://www.timken.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/MDV2-Tapered-Roller-Bearing-Damage.pdf

jamesmartin said:

the bearing wears over time till hard facing is worn through the softer center does then pit,the increased friction creates heat and burns oil into the surface

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Ah, you beat me to it!

More stuff here, but really talking about grease-lubricated bearings rather than oil.

https://www.timken.com/pdf/5892_Bearing Damage Analysis Brochure.pdf

Still, everything seems to suggest that mine failed by contaminated lubricant with metal particles in it that were higher than the lubricant film thickness?

And this one seems to suggest simply "old age"?

https://www.schaeffler.com/remoteme...ownloads_24/barden_bearing_failures_us_en.pdf

Avocet1 said:

More stuff here, but really talking about grease-lubricated bearings rather than oil.

https://www.timken.com/pdf/5892_Bearing Damage Analysis Brochure.pdf

Still, everything seems to suggest that mine failed by contaminated lubricant with metal particles in it that were higher than the lubricant film thickness?

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the bearing race in your pic looks like failure from wear not contamination, its shiny and dosent have the speckled effect from debris pressed into the surface

Bearings are case hardened and polish ground to the exact surface dimensions needed for the application. There are two main bearing failure modes. The first is simply due to wear over time. This wear is normally due to microscopic particles in the oil, wearing the hardened surface off.

The second type of failure is due to overload. In overload situations, the case hardening can literally peel off softer base metal, due the the constant high pressure on the bearing surface. This high pressure will de-laminate the case hardening off the base material. This is the most common failure mode for the IRD bearings.