To repair or not to repair?

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Ugavine

Ugavine

Member
Posts
44
Location
Black Country, West Mids.
I've a 1996 300TDi that has sadly died.

Love the car, but don't know what to do. I know nothing of mechanics so any work will be done by a garage.

I had the Head Gasket repaired a couple of weeks ago. It was fine for a fortnight but has now started tapping. The garage, who I trust, say that the time I was driving with the gasket problem has caused more damage as it had no oil in the engine.

Yadda, yadda, yadda... Basically it needs a new engine. :(

So the question is, having just spent £900 on repairs, is it worth fixing?
And how much would an engine swap likely cost?
 
Need to find a rusted out bodied Disco with a decent 300tdi in it. But the Defender/Series guys love them for their trucks so there will be competition. You could try the dismantlers. A 4x4 garage should quote for the swap. But it is heartbreaking and I feel for you, especially after spending so much dosh. If you can find one running in a vehicle you might have a chance of assessing how good it is, but you'd need to be able to measure cylinder pressure, maybe do a leakdown test, see if the gasket is ok(!), etc etc. Depends on how good you are at all this stuff, or how much of a risk taker you are. Secondhand from a fairly reputable place are about £900 but reconditioned are worth about the same as two and a bit Disco1s. You are in the awful place a non-mechanic finds themselves. If there are good bits on the truck you could try selling it to someone else who wants it for parts and putting that towards buying another one. Surprised a blown head-gasket meant it ran with no oil in it. No water I could understand. Cracked head, I could understand. I'd be a bit worried if the garage asked you to sell it to them, cos that could mean it actually is not that bad, and they know it! "tapping". any more on that? Like where from? Could it just be a loose tappet? Just noticed you say you trust the garage. Would you trust them to source you a decent second-hand lump?
 
Cheers for the reply.
I'm going to pop round to the garage tomorrow to see what they say.

The gasket was blowing out the back in two places, that's what caused the oil leak which I didn't realise.
I took it back because the garage thought the tappets just had not settled. But now I think he mentioned the crankshaft.
 
Ugavine said:
I've a 1996 300TDi that has sadly died.

Love the car, but don't know what to do. I know nothing of mechanics so any work will be done by a garage.

I had the Head Gasket repaired a couple of weeks ago. It was fine for a fortnight but has now started tapping. The garage, who I trust, say that the time I was driving with the gasket problem has caused more damage as it had no oil in the engine.

Yadda, yadda, yadda... Basically it needs a new engine. :(

So the question is, having just spent £900 on repairs, is it worth fixing?
And how much would an engine swap likely cost?
Click to expand...

I have just took the engine out my project its done about an hours running I might be persuaded to part with it
its an edc engine so you will need to change the injection pump & injectors from your own engine although I
have 4 brand new bosch injectors if required ;)
The engine has been stripped & rebuilt (not by me)
 
Well if there was a big oil leak, the crankshaft would have been likely to run dry therefore wearing the bearing surfaces on the crank, the big ends and the main bearings. Surprised the oil pressure light did not come on. But if he put it all back together, he ought to have known if there was further damage. If he caught, or you caught, the head gasket in time, it would have been possible to replace the gasket or even to resurface the head, despite what is said, a 300tdi can be lightly skimmed and enthusiasts even skim them further but that requires special work to the valves to ensure they do not say hello to the pistons. The state of the head should have told him if a new gasket would be enough or not. So if the crank suffered I am surprised it wasn't obvious, if it was he should have told you the engine was cooked before he did the work which was going to turn out to be a waste of time. Maybe I am out of touch but £900 seems a lot to just replace a head gasket. If he does source you a second-hand engine and you have it fitted, it might be instructive to strip the old one down and look at where it came to grief. You might even give yourself a mechanicing lesson by doing it yourself, all it takes is a bit of room and a socket set. You could balance a Haynes manual somewhere. We've all done it to learn. The old bits you could weigh in for scrap to get a bit of pocket money back. Depends on what you think of as fun. If the garage knows you are going to do this, make sure you make a note of the engine number, which should match the one on your V5 (or whatever it is called now) to ensure you get your old one back. Then you will at least be able to tell if the garage is telling you the truth. Just thought, you might need to buy a micrometer or a decent caliper and a set of feeler gauges, they ain't expensive. Wear to bearing shells is obvious, ditto a scored crankshaft journal. All the maximum clearances are on page 2C.3 of the Haynes manual.
 
If you have no knowledge to work on the vehicle yourself, you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. IMHO, it is time to learn!

IMHO, unless you can weld, it will only be worth fixing if it is rot free - by which I mean the rot that is there has been repaired properly - and not simply "patched" and "undersealed" ( underseal is the work of the devil - promoted by "garages" as it traps moisture and rots your pride and joy 24/7 :mad: - meaning they get to sell you another car quite quickly :rolleyes: ).

I am nervous of any "garage" who do a job such as you describe - and have the same thoughts as Stanley Steamer in post #5...

The other thing to consider is what could you replace it with ? Another disco, certainly, but at the age they all are, you are going to have to be careful to not buy a rot box .....
 
Hate to say this, in view of the electrics, but a TD5 Disco 2 with a sound rear chassis may well be a better bet, but you have to be aware that it is chock full of minicomputers. As with many things in life, Discos are 6 of one or half a dozen of the other. Disco 1s bodies rust for a pastime, but are relatively easy to repair, their engines are usually strong, but you have been unlucky. Disco 2s are more modern in that their engines, suspension and drive-trains rely far more on electronics. When working they are great but they do often have problems with said electronics which can be a real barsteward to diagnose and cure. I have both and honestly prefer my 300tdi, but, guess what, it is awaiting the attention of my, or someone else's welder!
Have a good long look around at both types and see what you can find, if you cannot do anything with what you have.
 
Happy to be corrected but I didn't think a blown head gasket could cause an oil leak. If you are unlucky (as I was) and the coolant gets in the bores and down to the sump you will still only get oil contamination and not loss?
 
backinblack said:
Happy to be corrected but I didn't think a blown head gasket could cause an oil leak. If you are unlucky (as I was) and the coolant gets in the bores and down to the sump you will still only get oil contamination and not loss?
Click to expand...
I suppose there must be oil ways running between the head and the block, to lubricate the cam, at the very least. So if they are there then again I suppose it must be possible to lose oil if the gasket goes in the wrong place, but I cannot help but feel the OP would have noticed such a big oil loss. Which is why I feel there is something a bit fishy about the whole thing with the garage.
Somehow missed the offer from Kevstar. If yours is EDC, i.e. auto then this sounds like a good offer. If not, I am not sure how the conversion to standard mechanical injection would go. Needs investigating. No matter what the history of your knackered engine, things need to move forwards.
 
Thinking about it I guess you are right there must be oil ways in the block. I just remember someone once saying there's only water ways and not oil ways. Suppose it depends on the engine.
 
backinblack said:
Happy to be corrected but I didn't think a blown head gasket could cause an oil leak. If you are unlucky (as I was) and the coolant gets in the bores and down to the sump you will still only get oil contamination and not loss?
Click to expand...

There are oil galleries and passages in the head to lubricate the rocker shaft, my 200 has a weep of oil from the MLS HG fitted by a previous owner, been on my list of "I really ought to do that" jobs for years :D But if it pizzed all the oil out the HG then there was a serious problem, failing that there was/is something much more sinister going on.
Stanleysteamer said:
I suppose there must be oil ways running between the head and the block, to lubricate the cam, at the very least.
Click to expand...
300Tdi has a pushrod operated valve train with the cam in the block and a rocker shaft in the head, very old hat for an engine from the mid 90s

@Ugavine

I was musing this and think you better get an actual oil pressure gauge on there and see what pressure it's getting, I'm not sure I would be so keen to trust your garage at all, I mean, the back of the HG is a common failure point but all that happens is a chuffing where the gasket blows.

Now then, if you had damaged the head or the block whilst still using it blown then why did they just slap a new HG in there and nail it back together?

Had there been any damage then why did they not point this out?

I am having to assume they didn't tell you that you need to check the fluids for a while after having such surgery? If not, why not? I check my Discovery every time I take it out, it takes a minute tops to pop the bonnet and pull the dippy stick and pop the top on the expansion tank.

Investigate the failure and keep us updated.
 
dieseldog69 said:
There are oil galleries and passages in the head to lubricate the rocker shaft, my 200 has a weep of oil from the MLS HG fitted by a previous owner, been on my list of "I really ought to do that" jobs for years :D But if it pizzed all the oil out the HG then there was a serious problem, failing that there was/is something much more sinister going on.

300Tdi has a pushrod operated valve train with the cam in the block and a rocker shaft in the head, very old hat for an engine from the mid 90s

@Ugavine

I was musing this and think you better get an actual oil pressure gauge on there and see what pressure it's getting, I'm not sure I would be so keen to trust your garage at all, I mean, the back of the HG is a common failure point but all that happens is a chuffing where the gasket blows.

Now then, if you had damaged the head or the block whilst still using it blown then why did they just slap a new HG in there and nail it back together?

Had there been any damage then why did they not point this out?

I am having to assume they didn't tell you that you need to check the fluids for a while after having such surgery? If not, why not? I check my Discovery every time I take it out, it takes a minute tops to pop the bonnet and pull the dippy stick and pop the top on the expansion tank.

Investigate the failure and keep us updated.
Click to expand...

Absolutely totally agree, I really feel there is more to this.
Talking of oilways, I was generalising mentioning the cam, as backinblack said there is only a rockershaft there, But anywhere that metal rubs against metal there has to be lubrication, so rockers, rocker shaft, push-rods even valves sliding in their guides, all need oil. to exchange heat as much if not more than anything else.
Flat head engines with side-valves, which need no oilways, are still around, unbelievably, even in aircraft. Of course two-stokes don't have'em either.
 
backinblack said:
Thinking about it I guess you are right there must be oil ways in the block. I just remember someone once saying there's only water ways and not oil ways. Suppose it depends on the engine.
Click to expand...
300 tdi has an oil way front rhs of engine ,oil can leak from pushrod tubes if gasket fails there but it wouldnt be a severe leak
 
Ugavine said:
I've a 1996 300TDi that has sadly died.

Love the car, but don't know what to do. I know nothing of mechanics so any work will be done by a garage.

I had the Head Gasket repaired a couple of weeks ago. It was fine for a fortnight but has now started tapping. The garage, who I trust, say that the time I was driving with the gasket problem has caused more damage as it had no oil in the engine.

Yadda, yadda, yadda... Basically it needs a new engine. :(

So the question is, having just spent £900 on repairs, is it worth fixing?
And how much would an engine swap likely cost?
Click to expand...
unlikely story , id be checking tappets
 
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