Things that never make the news...

In message <[email protected]>, Larry
<[email protected]> writes
>Well my series must be a smoke free zone, cos there is neither ashtray nor
>cigarette lighter.
>
>
The ash tray is disguised as a water drainage hole.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

In article <[email protected]>, Richard Brookman wrote:
>
> Does that mean that the machete that I carry in the S2a (for "gardening" on
> a lane - and very well hidden from casual observers) should not be there?
> Serious question.
>

Check out this post on British Blades

http://britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8336

There are others on the site as well and some poeple very knowledgeable
about knife law.

You will probably find an answer there, but it's basically if you can give
a valid reason for carrying it you will be OK.

HTH.

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.

During stardate 12 Oct 2005 16:35:37 GMT, Simon Barr <[email protected]>
uttered the imortal words:

>In article <[email protected]>, Richard Brookman wrote:
>>
>> Does that mean that the machete that I carry in the S2a (for "gardening" on
>> a lane - and very well hidden from casual observers) should not be there?
>> Serious question.
>>
>
>Check out this post on British Blades
>
>http://britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8336
>
>There are others on the site as well and some poeple very knowledgeable
>about knife law.
>
>You will probably find an answer there, but it's basically if you can give
>a valid reason for carrying it you will be OK.
>
>HTH.

If a carpenter has a knife on him on the way down the pub then they
will commit an offence. Forgetting it's there isn't a defence.

If the carpenter is on his way to work and has a knife then he/she is
ok.

So I'd advise that when your going to the lanes and on the lanes your
ok but otherwise tuck it away securely at home.

Lee D
--
Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiam.
Winston Churchill

www.lrproject.com
'76 101 Camper
'64 88" IIa V8 Auto
'97 Disco ES Auto LPG'd
'01 Laguna

In message <[email protected]>, Lee_D
<[email protected]> writes
>If a carpenter has a knife on him on the way down the pub then they
>will commit an offence. Forgetting it's there isn't a defence.

Against the law.
Its a bloody offence against common sense.
My entire family carry penknives that constitute an offence, now we're
all criminals even though we've not hurt anyone in living memory.

>
>If the carpenter is on his way to work and has a knife then he/she is
>ok.
>
>So I'd advise that when your going to the lanes and on the lanes your
>ok but otherwise tuck it away securely at home.
>

The nutters who want to hurt people will carry knives with nothing but
contempt for the law.
All that law did was empower bureaucrats.
--
Mark Roberts

During stardate Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:39:50 +0100, mark
<[email protected]> uttered the imortal words:


<snip rant>

Indeed.
--
Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiam.
Winston Churchill

www.lrproject.com
'76 101 Camper
'64 88" IIa V8 Auto
'97 Disco ES Auto LPG'd
'01 Laguna

On or around Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:57:15 +0100, Lee_D
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>During stardate Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:39:50 +0100, mark
><[email protected]> uttered the imortal words:
>
>
><snip rant>
>
>Indeed.

<rant=more>

's like the gun laws. Absolutely typical of modern government, both the
last lot and this lot even more so. They see a failure of law *enforcement*
and promptly enact a load more laws, none of which will be any better
enforced, and which all criminals will ignore exactly the same as they ever
did.

It was already illegal (for ordinary citizens) to carry a loaded weapon in
public, it was already illegal to shoot people. It's no more or less so
now, but a whole lot of people who were never going to shoot anything but a
bit of cardboard had their hobby ****ed up. In many cases, they had their
property taken away with no compensation, which if anyone other than the
government did it would count as theft.

similarly now. It's already illegal to threaten someone with a knife (of
any size) and it's already illegal to stick it into someone, and as a
general rule you'd have to have pretty iron-clad evidence to get away with
such behaviour, especially if you kill someone. But that's not good enough,
oh no, we need New Laws...

and now, of course, if they decide you're a terrorist you can get banged up
for 3 months. I don't know on what criteria they can decide this, nor what
chance you have of proving that you're not, and I wonder what happens when
they lock you up for 3 months, then it turns out you're not a terrorist
after all... do you get your job back? do you get compensation for 3
month's lost wages? what if you're self-employed and your business fails as
a result of such absence? Do they compensate your family for not having
their husband/father around, do they rebuild other's belief in your
integrity?

hollow silence, no doubt. I suppose gradually all these questions will get
answered. But they should bloody be answered BEFORE it's made law. The
amount of genuinely bad legislation being enacted these days is truly
staggering.

</rant>

ach, soddit. If I could work out where there was a better place to live,
I'd be off there tomorrow. Can you emigrate to Fiji[1]? I'm sure they have
land rovers to be fixed, stuff to be welded up, kids to drive to school, and
other such things there...

[1] or other laid-back tropical place, or even non-tropical, but
laid-back...


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Confidence: Before important work meetings, boost your confidence by
reading a few pages from "The Tibetan Book of the Dead"
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:57:15 +0100, Lee_D
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>During stardate Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:39:50 +0100, mark
>><[email protected]> uttered the imortal words:
>>
>>
>><snip rant>
>>
>>Indeed.
>
> <rant=more>
>
> 's like the gun laws. Absolutely typical of modern government, both the
> last lot and this lot even more so. They see a failure of law
> *enforcement*
> and promptly enact a load more laws, none of which will be any better
> enforced, and which all criminals will ignore exactly the same as they
> ever
> did.
>
> It was already illegal (for ordinary citizens) to carry a loaded weapon in
> public, it was already illegal to shoot people. It's no more or less so
> now, but a whole lot of people who were never going to shoot anything but
> a
> bit of cardboard had their hobby ****ed up. In many cases, they had their
> property taken away with no compensation, which if anyone other than the
> government did it would count as theft.
>
> similarly now. It's already illegal to threaten someone with a knife (of
> any size) and it's already illegal to stick it into someone, and as a
> general rule you'd have to have pretty iron-clad evidence to get away with
> such behaviour, especially if you kill someone. But that's not good
> enough,
> oh no, we need New Laws...
>
> and now, of course, if they decide you're a terrorist you can get banged
> up
> for 3 months. I don't know on what criteria they can decide this, nor
> what
> chance you have of proving that you're not, and I wonder what happens when
> they lock you up for 3 months, then it turns out you're not a terrorist
> after all... do you get your job back? do you get compensation for 3
> month's lost wages? what if you're self-employed and your business fails
> as
> a result of such absence? Do they compensate your family for not having
> their husband/father around, do they rebuild other's belief in your
> integrity?
>
> hollow silence, no doubt. I suppose gradually all these questions will
> get
> answered. But they should bloody be answered BEFORE it's made law. The
> amount of genuinely bad legislation being enacted these days is truly
> staggering.
>
> </rant>
>
> ach, soddit. If I could work out where there was a better place to live,
> I'd be off there tomorrow. Can you emigrate to Fiji[1]? I'm sure they
> have
> land rovers to be fixed, stuff to be welded up, kids to drive to school,
> and
> other such things there...
>
> [1] or other laid-back tropical place, or even non-tropical, but
> laid-back...

Personally, I'd go to Dubai, plenty of discoveries all over the place and a
lot of garages. Only issue would be the 45 degree summer months...

Badger.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:39:58 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

><rant=more>

Go for it...

>'s like the gun laws. Absolutely typical of modern government, both the
>last lot and this lot even more so. They see a failure of law *enforcement*
>and promptly enact a load more laws, none of which will be any better
>enforced, and which all criminals will ignore exactly the same as they ever
>did.

Yep, but the paperwork dealing with gunslips has been reduced, and
those visits to check cabinets...

>similarly now. It's already illegal to threaten someone with a knife (of
>any size) and it's already illegal to stick it into someone, and as a
>general rule you'd have to have pretty iron-clad evidence to get away with
>such behaviour, especially if you kill someone. But that's not good enough,
>oh no, we need New Laws...

The _really_ silly thing is that this - or any other for that matter
'Government' have never really read what laws we already have - and
don't listen to those who know the law - like the Law Lords - who,
incidentally DO NOT LIKE much of the current knee-jerk media inspired
legislation that's being badly written, without adequate consultation
and then rushed through with disregard for the inevitable, and costly
consequences in the future.

>and now, of course, if they decide you're a terrorist you can get banged up
>for 3 months.

Not quite, well, not yet - but pretty inevitable (used to call this
'internment' ISTR).

> I don't know on what criteria they can decide this,

Yes you do, or you should do if you watched or otherwise followed the
antics at the Labour Party Conference a couple of weeks ago.

>nor what chance you have of proving that you're not,

None

>and I wonder what happens when they lock you up for 3 months, then it
>turns out you're not a terrorist after all...

Tough luck, it's all for the public good, to protect, erm, your rights
to freedom, erm...

>do you get your job back?

Nope

>do you get compensation for 3 month's lost wages?

Nope (well, to qualify, you may do 30 years down the line when it's
"PC" to start such claims and a different administration is in)

>what if you're self-employed and your business fails as
>a result of such absence?

Tough luck, it's all for the public good, to protect, erm, your rights
to freedom, erm...

>Do they compensate your family for not having their husband/father around,

Nope

> do they rebuild other's belief in your integrity?



>hollow silence, no doubt. I suppose gradually all these questions will get
>answered.

You reckon?

>But they should bloody be answered BEFORE it's made law.

Why? This hasn't happened before - bad law is simply that, 'bad law'.

If you don't like it, do something about it.

>The amount of genuinely bad legislation being enacted these days is truly
>staggering.

You have NO IDEA what other stuff has actually been passed, covertly
written into the subtexts of other bad laws.

I (slightly vested interest declared) have a LOT of sympathy with
those empowered to enforce such bad laws.

></rant>

Shame, I was just getting into it - too...

>ach, soddit. If I could work out where there was a better place to live,
>I'd be off there tomorrow. Can you emigrate to Fiji[1]? I'm sure they have
>land rovers to be fixed, stuff to be welded up, kids to drive to school, and
>other such things there...

You live in a society that will mend you when you break, or become
worn, a society that will educate your children, empty your dustbin
and give you some money if you cannot earn a living. A society that
will protect you from fire, thieves and thugs, ensure you have a roof
over your head and clean water to drink and will give you more dosh
when you're too old to work.

The same society grants you the freedom to say what you like, when you
like and does not, currently, kill you if "they" don't like you.

All costs and gains analysis go from good to not so good - I'd be the
first to go back to the Netherlands if I thought it were any better,
but it aint, and in all honesty, nowhere is paradise. Maslow[1] was
right, Milgam[2] was also right.


[1] Google: "MASLOW'S HIERARCHY OF NEEDS"

[2] Google: "STANLEY MILGRAM" and add "obedience to authority" if you
really want to know if we have true freedom of choice...





--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:07:32 +0100, Lee_D
<[email protected]> wrote:

>If a carpenter has a knife on him on the way down the pub then they
>will commit an offence. Forgetting it's there isn't a defence.

This would never get to Court - unless there were 'other' factors.


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

In article <[email protected]>, mark
<[email protected]> writes
>The nutters who want to hurt people will carry knives with nothing but
>contempt for the law.
>All that law did was empower bureaucrats.

Quite.

Surely if I have genuinely forgotten, say, that my pocket knife is
there, it's not by definition an offensive weapon. If I remember it and
use it offensively, that's very different.

Regards,

Simonm.

--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/

During stardate Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:12:16 GMT, SpamTrapSeeSig
<[email protected]> uttered the imortal words:

>In article <[email protected]>, mark
><[email protected]> writes
>>The nutters who want to hurt people will carry knives with nothing but
>>contempt for the law.
>>All that law did was empower bureaucrats.
>
>Quite.
>
>Surely if I have genuinely forgotten, say, that my pocket knife is
>there, it's not by definition an offensive weapon. If I remember it and
>use it offensively, that's very different.
>
>Regards,
>
>Simonm.

http://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q337.htm

No you don't have to use it offensively. If you did then more
appropriate charges would be Affray & Possesion of an offensive
weapon.

I.e. it's the item in this case that is offensive and not the action
for the possesion offence. Owness is on the defendant to prove that
"on the balance of probabilites" the possesion was reasonable. Whilst
this may sound harsh it's not quite as harsh as having to "prove
beyond all reasonable doubt" that the possesion was reasonable.

More a case of Guilty until maybe innocent rather than Guilty until
definately innocent.

Yes the law is an Ass.

Lee D
--
Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiam.
Winston Churchill

www.lrproject.com
'76 101 Camper
'64 88" IIa V8 Auto
'97 Disco ES Auto LPG'd
'01 Laguna

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:27:42 +0100, Lee_D
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>Surely if I have genuinely forgotten, say, that my pocket knife is
>>there, it's not by definition an offensive weapon. If I remember it and
>>use it offensively, that's very different.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Simonm.
>
>http://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q337.htm
>
>No you don't have to use it offensively. If you did then more
>appropriate charges would be Affray & Possesion of an offensive
>weapon.

2 points;

1. A 'pocket knife' is too vague a description. Generally this will
be seen as a folding, non-locking 'penknife' (with a blade less than 3
inch I think). If, as an example, it's a 'Leatherman' type knife, or
'tool', with a locking blade, it is _not_ an offence to carry it if
you can demonstrate that you are carrying it because you use the
screwdriver part of the tool, or the corkscrew, or the nailfile...

2. "Affray & Possesion of an offensive weapon" can be a charge put to
anyone getting into 'bother' carrying - well, just about anything -
including a Biro or bunch of keys. The governing factor to this
coming to a Court is equally as vague, most don't (thankfully, there's
enough trivial ****e to deal with as it is).

Thankfully (as Lee will know) there are certain areas where a huge
amount of discretion is deployed. A woman I know habitually carried a
small CS spray with her. All of the local plod know this, all of the
local plod also know she was raped 10 years ago, nobody really cares
that she carries it as we know she would never use it - unless she had
to, to defend herself as a 'last resort'. Should she be a 19 year old
shinhead falling out of a pub on a Friday night, waving it around
however...

The laws we have, bad and totally irrational as many may be, are
actually there to protect the majority of us - not intended to make us
all criminals. Bad laws are only really evil when they're used to
otherwise control us. But as I always say, if you're not paranoid,
you're not paying enough attention...


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

Mother wrote:

> You live in a society that will mend you when you break, or become
> worn,
Eventually. Possibly

a society that will educate your children,
Badly, whilst trying to convince them that they are the best ever.
> empty your dustbin.
That's all. Years ago they picked it up. Now we have to traipse it to
the roadside, the right way round and not too full, or they will leave
it there.
> and give you some money if you cannot earn a living.
Much less than any other European country.
>A society that will protect you from fire,
Granted.
> thieves and thugs,
Err. Well sometimes, possibly, but is utterly incapable of reining in
anti-social behaviour.
> ensure you have a roof over your head
....and compulsorily purchase the same roof if they feel like it, just to
improve the area.

>and will give you more dosh when you're too old to work.
How much ? Then they tax the bollocks off you AGAIN with rates - 30% of
your income if you are on the state pension.

On or around Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:49:34 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother}
@"@101fc.net> enlightened us thusly:

>Yes you do, or you should do if you watched or otherwise followed the
>antics at the Labour Party Conference a couple of weeks ago.

come off it... perhaps I should, but to be honest, I'd better things to do.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Once, when the secrets of science were the jealously guarded property of
a small priesthood, the common man had no hope of mastering their arcane
complexities. Years of study in musty classrooms were prerequisite to
obtaining even a dim, incoherent knowledge of science.
Today, all that has changed: a dim, incoherent knowledge of science is
available to anyone. - Tom Weller, Science Made Stupid, 1986

On or around Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:49:34 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother}
@"@101fc.net> enlightened us thusly:

>If you don't like it, do something about it.
>

what, like voting for someone else? done that, in this area we have rather
a good Plaid MP, but it makes no sodding difference.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Once, when the secrets of science were the jealously guarded property of
a small priesthood, the common man had no hope of mastering their arcane
complexities. Years of study in musty classrooms were prerequisite to
obtaining even a dim, incoherent knowledge of science.
Today, all that has changed: a dim, incoherent knowledge of science is
available to anyone. - Tom Weller, Science Made Stupid, 1986

Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> ach, soddit. If I could work out where there was a better place to
> live, I'd be off there tomorrow. Can you emigrate to Fiji[1]? I'm
> sure they have land rovers to be fixed, stuff to be welded up, kids to
> drive to school, and other such things there...
>
> [1] or other laid-back tropical place, or even non-tropical, but
> laid-back...

Escapism is all very well, but if you're thinking of doing this you'd
really better do some research before packing. WRT Fiji, you could start
with the 2000 coup d'etat. What looks like a tropical paradise from a
distance may be a little more like a banana republic from closer.

Living abroad (I live in Switzerland) does give a certain level of
detachment though, as long as you're not in the state's sights. If you are,
it's a very different matter.

Jeremy

if y'awl wanna talk about stupid laws what about alcohol and hash. alcohol.....you get a load of people taking alcohol the chances are that someone will consume enough to turn violent yet it is legal.. hash,grass, or what ever you want to call it.... you get a load of people taking that chances are you'll end up with a room full of people giggling and eating mars bars but this one is illegal.
then you take your drunk dude and stick him in a car he thinks he can drink at 300mph which he trys to do. yer stoned dude on the other hand gets scared witless at anything over 15mph.
the old argument about marry joanna leading to harder drugs is bollocks and i bet the burden on the nhs caused by alcohol is a fcuk sight more trhan the cost caused by the user of spiffs.
then you have that other daft law that says everone has the same driving ability so there fore every one is able to drive at the same speed. i know of people that drive at 40-45 mph everywhere they go and in every weather cos they think that is safe. then you have people that drive according to the conditions( by that i mean the traffic,road,and weather conditions) so given the right conditions it would be safe the drive at 150mph whereas going past a school at 4pm in winter with falling snow doing 30mph could be see as too fast for prevailing conditions. but the law don't see this.
the law books are brimming with daft and stupid laws and until we have a rebellion we will just have to put up with the ship that the law makers give us.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:28:57 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:49:34 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother}
>@"@101fc.net> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>If you don't like it, do something about it.
>>
>
>what, like voting for someone else? done that, in this area we have rather
>a good Plaid MP, but it makes no sodding difference.

Of course it doesn't. That's why democracy is so popular with
politicians - they can kiss a few babies and bung a few quid in the
right direction and win "a mandate from the electorate", which
probably amounts to about 1 in 5 people actually voting for them.

Local democracy is even better - it provides (very) gainful employment
for a large number of people who would be otherwise unemployable. Or
'councillors' as they are otherwise known.




--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70

On or around Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:49:34 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother}
@"@101fc.net> enlightened us thusly:

>>ach, soddit. If I could work out where there was a better place to live,
>>I'd be off there tomorrow. Can you emigrate to Fiji[1]? I'm sure they have
>>land rovers to be fixed, stuff to be welded up, kids to drive to school, and
>>other such things there...
>
>You live in a society that will mend you when you break, or become
>worn, a society that will educate your children, empty your dustbin
>and give you some money if you cannot earn a living. A society that
>will protect you from fire, thieves and thugs, ensure you have a roof
>over your head and clean water to drink and will give you more dosh
>when you're too old to work.

up to a point, Lord Copper.

increasingly, the state pension is worth sod-all, and to have any decent
sort of life if/when you retire you have to make private provision as well.
That's fine if you can afford to, but starting from where I am, almost 40,
the amount I'd have to put into such would be prohibitive. So I guess I'll
carry on working 'til I drop, or something.

Healthcare... hmmm. It's just about to cost Father (who worked and paid NI
most of his life) 500 quid for a new set of false teeth. This is done
privately, because (partly) in this area there's almost zero chance of
getting NHS dental treatment, mainly 'cos there aren't enough NHS dentists.
Even if he could get 'em from the NHS, he'd still have to pay (considerably
less, granted) and he'd have to wait longer.

The people of my Parents' generation have, basically, been well and truly
screwed. *I* know that I can't rely on a state pension worth a light, if I
fail to make other provision then that's partly at least my fault. They
were told, when they started work in the 50s, that the state would look
after 'em. Private pensions were a rare thing which only the rich indulged
in - you paid yer money (in NI contributions) every week and the state would
look after you. By the time it became apparent that this wasn't going to
work, it was too late for them to do anything much about it.

So yeah, this country isn't as bad as some (many) places. But then again, a
lot of the putative benefits ain't a lot of use to me.

I gather we now, in Europe, have reciprocal pension thingies and so forth
which means that if you go an live in another EU country, you can still get
yer pension paid anyway (this may be a misconception on my part). If so,
well, I gather that Portugal still has reasonably priced property, provided
you stay away from the tourist trap areas, and there's a reasonable attitude
to offroaders and Landies... [seriously, I know several people who've
relocated to other countries in Europe - including one couple to Portugal]

Minor drawback that I don't know *any* Portuguese, but I spose I could
learn.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Too Busy: Your mind is like a motorway. Sometimes it can be jammed by
too much traffic. Avoid the jams by never using your mind on a
Bank Holiday weekend.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

Austin Shackles wrote:
>
> ach, soddit. If I could work out where there was a better place to live,
> I'd be off there tomorrow. Can you emigrate to Fiji[1]? I'm sure they have
> land rovers to be fixed, stuff to be welded up, kids to drive to school, and
> other such things there...
>
> [1] or other laid-back tropical place, or even non-tropical, but
> laid-back...

# major lots of civil unrest and govt overthrowing in recent years in
Fiji...no thanks.

Maybe the Cook Islands. Nice pace of life, enough corruption to make
things interesting and no decent mechanics. If it weren't for the wife
I'd be there now.

Here's a business you could buy there Austin.

http://www.rarosafaritours.co.ck/ <-- unfortunate TLD too.



--
EMB