Thin welding

nrgserv · Oct 8, 2012

jamesmartin said:
mig welding is the easiest ,never tried tig but i can gas weld just takes so long and requires more skill

tig's the electric version of gas.
lot less heat, as the arc's local, and the temperature of the arc's controllable thru the current so thin stuff and thick can be welded.

if the steels butt up, little or no filler required and the seam can be millimeters wide with the heat from the seam 5mm either side.

was trying to find a link on auto****e.com as there's a decent thread on there about it, but got sidetracked with a couple of 2a's......

(posted for all, just used your quote jm!)

Dr_evil · Oct 8, 2012

jamesmartin said:
not much call for it in repairing old landies unfortunatly

Impact explosive on the seats might stop the bugger being nicked though

Thor1950 · Oct 8, 2012

nrgserv said:
tig's the electric version of gas.
lot less heat, as the arc's local, and the temperature of the arc's controllable thru the current so thin stuff and thick can be welded.

if the steels butt up, little or no filler required and the seam can be millimeters wide with the heat from the seam 5mm either side.

was trying to find a link on auto****e.com as there's a decent thread on there about it, but got sidetracked with a couple of 2a's......

(posted for all, just used your quote jm!)

what ever the base materials is, it melts at the same temp weather you use gas,tig,mig or arc. you have better control of the inter pass temp with tig.

Thousands of x-ray inspected welds under me belt in the power plant industry. With tig and arc or combination of the 2

jai_landrover · Oct 8, 2012

I'm getting some wire tomorrow because my chassis needs work (and its galvanised) GREAT!!! So need to suspend the rear of the 80 inch from an engine hoist get the arse end as high as possible to remount the rear spring hangers.

Does he have any 3mm to play with???? Get some ground up and cleaned up and play with the mig.

Also that metal is thin .6mm or thinner coated old washing machine tin. Throw it in the bin it will not be nice to weld for anyone let alone starting out.

jamesmartin · Oct 8, 2012

Dr_evil said:
Impact explosive on the seats might stop the bugger being nicked though

unless you forget youve put it there before nipping out

Dr_evil · Oct 8, 2012

jamesmartin said:
unless you forget youve put it there before nipping out

Put a new perspective on the idea of ring sting

Thor1950 · Oct 8, 2012

Dr_evil said:
Same idea behind it making a pool then melting the filler into it but a lot faster as the arc melts the metal very quickly

you are just learning Doc just the basics get a few years under your belt. Your theory is correct,but experience is golden

Thor1950 · Oct 8, 2012

jai_landrover said:
I'm getting some wire tomorrow because my chassis needs work (and its galvanised) GREAT!!! So need to suspend the rear of the 80 inch from an engine hoist get the arse end as high as possible to remount the rear spring hangers.

Does he have any 3mm to play with???? Get some ground up and cleaned up and play with the mig.

Also that metal is thin .6mm or thinner coated old washing machine tin. Throw it in the bin it will not be nice to weld for anyone let alone starting out.

just grind off the galv where you got to weld, you get a better weld

Dr_evil · Oct 8, 2012

Thor1950 said:
you are just learning Doc just the basics get a few years under your belt. Your theory is correct,but experience is golden

We've been moving between the different processes and training, think I'm going to leave arc as its a pain and just use TIG and MIG or possibly gas too as its fun.

Making stuff in a few weeks so will be using one of the above as well as the CNC milling machine and possibly the forge

jamesmartin · Oct 8, 2012

Dr_evil said:
We've been moving between the different processes and training, think I'm going to leave arc as its a pain and just use TIG and MIG or possibly gas too as its fun.

Making stuff in a few weeks so will be using one of the above as well as the CNC milling machine and possibly the forge

have you done any old fashioned manual lathe work ,it gives you feel for the materials

Thor1950 · Oct 8, 2012

Dr_evil said:
We've been moving between the different processes and training, think I'm going to leave arc as its a pain and just use TIG and MIG or possibly gas too as its fun.

Making stuff in a few weeks so will be using one of the above as well as the CNC milling machine and possibly the forge

sounds like fun, school with all the new stuff, School 40yrs ago was you ran the machine. was no such thing as cnc. rate of feed cross feed, depth of feed etc you had to control the machine. Not put a chunk of metal and push a button and stand back and watch. Had to work off of prints and use mics,and calipers. The old days

jai_landrover · Oct 8, 2012

Chris unfortunatly nobody will say to it but them welds are not welds they are pants its not Kai's fault its because he is playing with a large amp arc welder I guess with 2.5mm rods on very very thin sheet. For somone learning its Far Far from ideal. I'm no welder by any means I can stick steel together and can recognise a good weld vs bad. Nobody will say its bad because he is only a youngun however its not going to help him learn. Hang that piece up in the shed discard it. Get some 3mm sheet get him doing various joints. once he gets some good ones put it against the old one and compare why they are better. build a bit of confidence and explain why the newer welds are better than the old ones.

At college we would have to make a perfect butt joint in 3mm gas welding before moving on to the next job it took some guys 6 weeks before the lecturer allowed them to move on. I don't think being that harsh is nessasary he's a youngun and a keen one at that but some structure to learning would help him. No point saying its amazing when its not it'll only confuse the poor lad.

This may have come across too harsh and I really don;t mean it to be Only ideas to help him progress as he is one keen youngun!

jamesmartin · Oct 8, 2012

you cant weld thin material with stick ,2.5mm rod needs more current to melt than 1mm steel

jai_landrover · Oct 8, 2012

Eggsactly he is ****ing in the wind with what he is trying to do not Kai's fault at all.

I've seen him run a nice couple of stitches of mig on two pieces of 4mm before now he just needs to keep on with it. That metal is really thin and not nice for learning.

jai_landrover · Oct 8, 2012

I think I have some 6mm kicking about he can pinch to play with at home or if you like pop over one evening next week and he can have a play with the little mig I have here.

pressbrake · Oct 8, 2012

I have a rough Idea about this stuff.
Keep your boy practising arc as its much harder to do and will give him the skills to do mig easily, this how you would learn to weld with me or any apprentiship.
The weld hes doing arent nice but hes showing very good control and watching what hes doing,, hes got promise

Arc only is still specced for critical jobs.
Tig is not primarily for ally, its main job is critical work of any material or thickness, though its the cheapest way to weld ally well as a pulse mig capable of high grade alloy welding is many thousands.
Im coded to lloyds and yank specs in mig arc and tig(and gas up to '96) but no doubt some bloke who ruins stuff in his shed with a 80amp pigeon **** machine will say Im talking ****

Dr_evil · Oct 8, 2012

jamesmartin said:
have you done any old fashioned manual lathe work ,it gives you feel for the materials

Thor1950 said:
sounds like fun, school with all the new stuff, School 40yrs ago was you ran the machine. was no such thing as cnc. rate of feed cross feed, depth of feed etc you had to control the machine. Not put a chunk of metal and push a button and stand back and watch. Had to work off of prints and use mics,and calipers. The old days

We've got normal ones too and will be using them as well as the lathes

nrgserv · Oct 8, 2012

jai_landrover said:
Chris unfortunatly nobody will say to it but them welds are not welds they are pants its not Kai's fault its because he is playing with a large amp arc welder I guess with 2.5mm rods on very very thin sheet. For somone learning its Far Far from ideal. I'm no welder by any means I can stick steel together and can recognise a good weld vs bad. Nobody will say its bad because he is only a youngun however its not going to help him learn. Hang that piece up in the shed discard it. Get some 3mm sheet get him doing various joints. once he gets some good ones put it against the old one and compare why they are better. build a bit of confidence and explain why the newer welds are better than the old ones.

At college we would have to make a perfect butt joint in 3mm gas welding before moving on to the next job it took some guys 6 weeks before the lecturer allowed them to move on. I don't think being that harsh is nessasary he's a youngun and a keen one at that but some structure to learning would help him. No point saying its amazing when its not it'll only confuse the poor lad.

This may have come across too harsh and I really don;t mean it to be Only ideas to help him progress as he is one keen youngun!

:clap2:
i tried me first stick welding at 12, and it looked similar to that.
persistance and watching people that could weld, also watching people that couldn't and where there going wrong. constant sticking rods, the arc set buzzing its nuts off while they were trying to get the rod off the work, bits of work flying across the yard as they pulled it off the bench....

lived with arc untill about 4 years back when i finally bought a mig. (mate had a disco to do....)

i aint a professional welder either, most of what i do is self taught, but persistance is what got me to where i am. (and necessity, when i bought me first series in 1990)

keep at it kai.

Brown · Oct 8, 2012

I'd just like to add that it's really inspirational to see kids playing with tools. I was a bit of an oddity as a teenager because I preferred this to underage drinking and football. Kai will have an interesting life, but will never starve because there are always people wanting things mended! As other's have said, arc in my experience is much better for anything above 3mm in thickness. Less than that and mig is a great deal easier. I still remember my teenage joy at getting a nice even bead for the first time. That was with a 5mm electrode on 6mm plate. If there's a bit more meat to absorb the heat it's a lot easier.

Thor1950 · Oct 8, 2012

Brown said:
I'd just like to add that it's really inspirational to see kids playing with tools. I was a bit of an oddity as a teenager because I preferred this to underage drinking and football. Kai will have an interesting life, but will never starve because there are always people wanting things mended! As other's have said, arc in my experience is much better for anything above 3mm in thickness. Less than that and mig is a great deal easier. I still remember my teenage joy at getting a nice even bead for the first time. That was with a 5mm electrode on 6mm plate. If there's a bit more meat to absorb the heat it's a lot easier.

Think back to before the time of MIG............. Thin metal was arc welded or gas welded. and using arc weld rod of 1/16 dia for sheet work( thin stuff) and amps down to 20-30, Technology has made life easier. Learned to type in school on a manual type writer, doing math problems with pencil and paper

not punching in ###### and push a button. Advanced math was with a slide rule

Thin welding

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