The Three Amigos - ABS HDC TC lights

Hi All

Thought I'd start yet another thread so I didn't hi-jack a previous one.

I begin the 'three amigos' investigation on my '52 Disco 2 this week.

Only occurs very intermittently (once every 100 miles or more), seems to be triggered when braking (twice even just stationary) and at slow speeds.

Pads and discs are quite worn but was hoping to hold off for a while as this job isn't inexpensive.

Might try a fluid change first and sensor connector check for fault ;-) Anyone know how to identify the ABS sensor connectors/where they are?

Looking at nanocom too, but £350 is quite an outlay...

Lea

Just drop it into a friendly garage, they should be able to tell you what's causing the fault in minutes - if it is a sensor a clean up and reset can do the job.

Found the ABS sensors (easy really) and noticed the off-side had been replaced with non-OEM, ie non Wabco. Not only that, the connector from the old sensor has been spliced onto the new and covered in black electrical insulation tape - nice! Bearing in mind this has full dealer service, not best practice.

Will probably simply change it for a Wabco at £50 + VAT so not to bad, but I can see why people use non OEM as these sensors are around £200 for the new Freelander! But still surprised this bodge had been done on mine and especially by a dealer - maybe it wasn't them?!

As the lights also appear when the car is stationary I'm not convinced this sensor is the trigger - just hoping it's not the ABS modulator - great reading can be found here: ABS Mod - LAND ROVER CLUB V.I.

Think the best way forward is to read the codes.

I know the Nanocom is the one to purchase (https://blackbox-solutions.com/shop/) but at £350 it's not cheap.

Is there any laptop software and interface available for these cars at less cost?

Cheers
Lea

Hi Bump, you beat me to it! Thank for your reply.

Yep, I have a couple of friendly garages (friends) with code readers but sometimes I don't like to keep bothering them. Hopefully will get something to read codes myself, but in the mean time think it's worth popping to a friends (hopefully Friday) to borrow his diag kit ;-)

Hadn't thought about a clean-up...doesn't look muddy or particularly unclean in the adjent area but will give it a go.

LeaUK said:

Hi All

Thought I'd start yet another thread so I didn't hi-jack a previous one.

I begin the 'three amigos' investigation on my '52 Disco 2 this week.

Only occurs very intermittently (once every 100 miles or more), seems to be triggered when braking (twice even just stationary) and at slow speeds.

Pads and discs are quite worn but was hoping to hold off for a while as this job isn't inexpensive.

Might try a fluid change first and sensor connector check for fault ;-) Anyone know how to identify the ABS sensor connectors/where they are?

Looking at nanocom too, but £350 is quite an outlay...

Lea

Click to expand...

Hi Lea, if your discs & pads are worn that is the very first job you should be doing:


1. Here is the front axle brake component list for your vehicle, as you will see you can get a pair of discs and a set pads from £46.99+vat so not that expensive especially considering how important they are:

http://www.paddockspares.com/parts-and-accessories/land-rover-discovery-2/brakes/front-axle.html


2. To sort out where the Amigos problem lies, you need to get connected to a Hawkeye or Nano Evo. If you go to the D2 Boys Club forum, you will see a thread called Nanocom locator, where a load of helpful members list their locations in order to give assistance to other owners.

3. Doing a brake fluid change is a good thing, using Hawkeye or Nano Evo makes it really easy as you can use the abs pump to pump out the old fluid. Have done it many times and it works like a charm.

Good luck

Dave

Hi Dave

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

That's remarkably inexpensive, would probably spec something a bit nearer OEM in terms of quality, thanks for the link, haven't spotted these guys before.

I went here for the nanocom locator www.discovery2.co.uk/ Nanocom Locator, get help from your Land Rover Buddies!!! but nothing local I might try dropping someone on the list a mail just to confirm location.

Do I need a nano to do the pad/disc change as I've heard some of the Rangies need so to calibrate the callipers, or does it just make it easier?

Cheers
Lea

for the symptom you've described in the first post i'm affraid you need a new wheel hub.... you'll know which one when you read the fault code... probably it will be an "air gap.... " fault at one of the wheels...unless you get the SVS fault

LeaUK said:

Hi Dave

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

That's remarkably inexpensive, would probably spec something a bit nearer OEM in terms of quality, thanks for the link, haven't spotted these guys before.

I went here for the nanocom locator www.discovery2.co.uk/ Nanocom Locator, get help from your Land Rover Buddies!!! but nothing local I might try dropping someone on the list a mail just to confirm location.

Do I need a nano to do the pad/disc change as I've heard some of the Rangies need so to calibrate the callipers, or does it just make it easier?

Cheers
Lea

Click to expand...

Hi Lea, the good news is that changing discs and pads on a DII is probably the easiest and most satisfying job you can do to your vehicle. It does not require a diagnostic machine at all. Re Paddocks gear quality - I have used them on a number of Discos and Def's and had no problems whatsoever. The old adage of "you get what you pay for" doesn't seem to apply quite the same in the LR world. OEM LR prices are just stupid, it's not like LR actually makes them, they're just bought in.

1. Slacken wheel nuts, then jack up the axle and remove the road wheel;

2. The brake caliper is a two-part affair - caliper and carrier. Can't remember the order precisely, but from memory you remove the carrier and then remove 1 only of the caliper bolts then pivot the caliper from from the disc;

3. Now remove the Philips head screw holding the disc in place - this might need some persuasion to undo! - remove and set aside the old disc and install the new disc;

4. Reinstall caliper, install new pads in the carrier and reinstall and Bob is your Mum's best friend!

Now do the other side!

Should take more than an hour to do both sides of the front axle, then do the back.

See here for more detailed info:
http://www.discovery2.co.uk/brakes.html



Remember always that the Traction Control and Hill Descent Control also use exactly the same set of discs and pads as the normal ABS brakes - so if you do a lot of off-road work where the HDC & TC are working hard, keep an eye on the condition of your brakes.

Dave

Hi Dave

Thanks for your help and detailed post. OEM prices for discs and pads are around £128, a big difference. One thing I know is that the choice of pads makes a serious difference in performance and especially squeal, I learnt this on my previous SL500. It chucked dust out, but braked silently and with performance when OEMs were used.

I note that Paddock bundle Mintex pads and Mintex discs, whereas Island 4x4 bundle Bridpart Discs with Mintex pads.... any thoughts?

Who's the OEM for both?

Hi Sierrafery

I'm interested in why you think it's the hub (especially bearing in mind the huge cost of these). Would I experience any other symptoms if the hub is damaged? What would they be?

What's an 'air gap' fault? I assume it's where the sensor fails to induce magnetic response due to damaged/bent hub?

Could you elaborate?

Many thanks
Lea

the hub fault is very common and it gives intermittent 3 amigos at the beginning...then as it wears in time it will be more often... it happens cos the sensor is very sensitive and due to internal wear of the hub(bearing) there will be a play in the reluctor ring which gives the inputs to the sensor... actually the air gap between the reluctor ring's "teeth" and the sensor grows.

if the tester will point you to a wheel... imo the hub will be guilty...cos the "pure" sensor faults are usually more continuous

LeaUK said:

Hi Dave

Thanks for your help and detailed post. OEM prices for discs and pads are around £128, a big difference. One thing I know is that the choice of pads makes a serious difference in performance and especially squeal, I learnt this on my previous SL500. It chucked dust out, but braked silently and with performance when OEMs were used.

I note that Paddock bundle Mintex pads and Mintex discs, whereas Island 4x4 bundle Britpart Discs with Mintex pads.... any thoughts?

Who's the OEM for both?



Many thanks
Lea

Click to expand...

Hi Lea, Britpart and Bearmach are wholesalers who get their goods from a variety of producers. Mintex are like Lockheed - they make the stuff themselves. Mintex is good gear.

Dave

Thanks for clarifying Dave, sorry for my inexperience.

Mintex it is then, both pads and discs and what a great price

Sierraferry

'Unfortunately' I suspect you're right, I would expect a sensor to be continuously at fault if out of band or open circuit rather than display these intermittent symptoms. Funny you mention it will deteriorate, only tonight the 3 amigos lit three times during a 50 mile drive - never been that bad before.

As 'someone' has replaced the off-side sensor I suspect the diagnostics pointed at this sensor, and they simply changed it...it probably didn't resolve it or perhaps reduced it for a short while due to the sensor's sensitivity.

Although, here's a question, twice I've seen the lights stationary, would a varying air gap trigger when the vehicle is still?

Lea

LeaUK said:

Thanks for clarifying Dave, sorry for my inexperience.

Mintex it is then, both pads and discs and what a great price

Sierraferry

'Unfortunately' I suspect you're right, I would expect a sensor to be continuously at fault if out of band or open circuit rather than display these intermittent symptoms. Funny you mention it will deteriorate, only tonight the 3 amigos lit three times during a 50 mile drive - never been that bad before.

As 'someone' has replaced the off-side sensor I suspect the diagnostics pointed at this sensor, and they simply changed it...it probably didn't resolve it or perhaps reduced it for a short while due to the sensor's sensitivity.

Although, here's a question, twice I've seen the lights stationary, would a varying air gap trigger when the vehicle is still?

Lea

Click to expand...

no.... but the ECU used to have a certain delay in triggering the warnings sometimes....happened to me too...especially if u push or release the brakes

the 3 amigos when stationary is more possible for a SVS fault

read the fault codes, report back and we'll speak after .... untill then is pure guessing

no.... but the ECU used to have a certain delay in triggering the warnings sometimes....happened to me too...especially if u push or release the brakes

Click to expand...

Yes, I definitely remember when I hit the brakes it triggered it, the other stationary time seemed as if they appeared from nowhere when I was looking around the body.

Code reading on its way, thanks again.

Lea

Codes read today, the only one stored in the ABS unit was SVS.

Will be checking what I can using this bulletin first: http://www.landroverclubvi.com/uploads/2/3/9/8/2398536/shuttle_valve_switch_related_abs-tc-hdc_warning_lamp_illumination_troubleshooting.pdf

Any thoughts on implementing option B? ABS Mod - LAND ROVER CLUB V.I.

LeaUK said:

Codes read today, the only one stored in the ABS unit was SVS.

Any thoughts on implementing option B? ABS Mod - LAND ROVER CLUB V.I.

Click to expand...

Been there and done option B. Well worth the effort Just make sure you get yourself a new switch pack to modify. For the £30-£40 it costs it'll save you having to do the job again .

^^^^ +1 ..go for that

What's the new switch pack? One of these - ABS Modulator Shuttle Valve Repair Kit (Wabco) SWO500030 Island 4x4 - Specialists in Land Rover and Range Rover Parts and accessories for all models. UK and worldwide mail order.

Cleared the SVS fault and another 300 miles, no lights this time, last week I got 3 in 5 miles. SVS is so intermittent. Will be checking the grounds and pins first.