TD5 Cold start issues

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_tc

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Hi all, my '99 TD5 disco doesnt like the cold weather. ive only had her a few weeks and when i picked her up it was a few degrees warmer and she didnt give me any cause for concern when firing up. just let the glow plug light go out and crank away. with this cold snap she doent like starting from cold at all. no firing until atleast 5-10 secs in and then shes starts. fine once she has started and will be all day but leave over night and same again. its as if the glow plugs arent doing their bit.
I have checked supply to the plugs and all seems fine. i swapped relays with the aux one next to it but ame thing this morning.

I have had a good search on here but have different answers. most pointing in the direction of fuel related issues rather than plugs.
I have run through a purge cycle but as the problem has happened in the cold weather and i havent touched the fuel system i am getting confused.

Can anyone shed any light on the situation?

Ed.
 
distd5co said:
Just because their is a supply to them doesnt mean they are working properly. its best to take them out and try them.
Click to expand...


Well i took out the fron tone as its the easiest to get on. i put it across a good battery i know works and it got too hot to touch after a few seconds but i didnt leave it to glow red hot.
I put it back on the car loom and earthes it agains the head(checked with multi meter) and it didnt seem to get hot at all, that and the light on the dash went out too quickly, maybe as the engine is warm.
Could it be the relay isnt staying on long enough? light is on for may be 15 seconds or so.
 
Ok i spoke to my local landy independant garage and they said they just had one in with same fault. they checked the injector loom and it was oily so new one of those and job sorted. got home and checked my ecu etc and sure enough, knee deep in oil. i cleaned it out for now and took it for a long run(christmas shopping). all fine on the way but down on power on the way home then just before home a loud kncking and very down on power. looks as thought he oil is playing silly buggers. new inj harness on order and will report back.
 
ok an update. Heavy missfire and knocking(missfire noise). i found lots of oil in the loom by the ECU. cleaned it out and ordered a new inj harness. fitted it, cleaned loom again and started her. same poor starting and same missfiring, even after a few mintues to let it warm up waiting for the other cylinder to catch up.
Bit of a loss now. thought the oil contamination might have caused all this but not sure now.
thinking of injector washers?? bloody annoying, no warning lights on the dash.
any ideas.
 
_tc said:
ok an update. Heavy missfire and knocking(missfire noise). i found lots of oil in the loom by the ECU. cleaned it out and ordered a new inj harness. fitted it, cleaned loom again and started her. same poor starting and same missfiring, even after a few mintues to let it warm up waiting for the other cylinder to catch up.
Bit of a loss now. thought the oil contamination might have caused all this but not sure now.
thinking of injector washers?? bloody annoying, no warning lights on the dash.
any ideas.
Click to expand...

If there was loads of oil in the RED ECU plug....check it again now.... coz it can take a good few cleans out to get rid of it all...
 
Also.........did you take the ECU apart (The cover off) to see if there was oil IN the ECU if the plug was that heavily contaminated......I would do that first before you do anything else...but be very carefull (Or if your not happy doing it....take it to somebody that will do it)
Here's urban panzers guide :)
www.discovery2.co.uk / Workshop /Injector Harness
 
lost my T20 size torx bit so off to halfords for another then will take the top off the ecu to investigate. bloody land rovers, i love em though.
 
Ok i have gotten no further with this.
Ive checked the ECU to see for oil ingress but all was clear. i have cleaned the loom again although it hadnt gotten worse. I have started the car up and disconnected the injectors one by one to hear for change in noise. no change when unplugging 3 and 4 but 1,2, and 5 seemed to stop the engine from running altogether. I plugged them all back on and started her up. smoke cleared so i went round the village. Knocking noise came straight back and wont go now again. still not quite full power too.
I have taken a video on my phone so you can see/hear the problem.
Please help......
MOV00395.flv video by _tc_2006 - Photobucket
 
Have just been through similar noises, starting and running problems myself......60 litres of unleaded in a TD5 proved to be the cause of my woes.:doh:
 
oh bugger. i am pretty sure that hasnt happened here. i put £10 of diesel in last time just to roadtest it then this developed.
 
The TD5 engine uses only 4 glow plugs. There isn't one in #5 cylinder.
During a cold start I think the ECU stops the #5 injector from operating so that raw fuel vapour doesn't reach the catalytic converter.

Only after the engine is up to speed does the ECU tell #5 injector to commence operations.

In my TD5 Disco a cold start is (so far) always a first time event, BUT ... it has to be treated like a big cold diesel, not like a spark-ignition engine.

First, NO THROTTLE ... you must NOT be pressing the GO pedal when trying to start a TD5, and let the IGN light show on the dash for 10 seconds at least to let the fuel pressure build up and flow.

Second, press the clutch pedal to the floor to take out gearbox drag.

Third ... IGN key to GLOW and wait till the light goes out,

and now here's the trick ...

Fourth .. run the starter and KEEP IT RUNNING even after the engine begins to fire up, until all of a sudden the engine speed jumps up to about 1,000 rpm, and THEN release the starter.

Job done. It's running. In a TD5 is is a good idea to let it run for a few minutes before driving away, but remember DO NOT LEAVE IT RUNNING AND UNATTENDED, in case some pikey steps in and steals it.

CharlesY
 
TC cracking video mate but tell you wat that deosn,t sound good some serious **** going on there. does it go any quiter when it,s warm
 
mastermac said:
TC cracking video mate but tell you wat that deosn,t sound good some serious **** going on there. does it go any quiter when it,s warm
Click to expand...

Thanks, no CGI invovled either. No the noise wasnt there actually on first start up( few minutes earlier) but came along within 30 seconds and doestn go away. It first happened when travelling along the dual carriageway. vehicle slowed down whilst going up hill, a hill it should do no prbs in 5th and once over the top i heard this clattering. It does sound mechanical rather than an injector not firing or indeed firing at the wrong time but i cant be sure.
Should i send the ecu to TD5alive first or send the car to the local indy to have a butchers?
 
DualDisco said:
Have just been through similar noises, starting and running problems myself......60 litres of unleaded in a TD5 proved to be the cause of my woes.:doh:
Click to expand...

HA!

I can beat that! In July 2008 I put 68 litres of Unleaded in mine.

It survived, and was driven till the petrol was all used up.

CharlesY
 
_tc said:
Ok i have gotten no further with this.
Ive checked the ECU to see for oil ingress but all was clear. i have cleaned the loom again although it hadnt gotten worse. I have started the car up and disconnected the injectors one by one to hear for change in noise. no change when unplugging 3 and 4 but 1,2, and 5 seemed to stop the engine from running altogether. I plugged them all back on and started her up. smoke cleared so i went round the village. Knocking noise came straight back and wont go now again. still not quite full power too.
I have taken a video on my phone so you can see/hear the problem.
Please help......
MOV00395.flv video by _tc_2006 - Photobucket
Click to expand...


That clattering noise makes me think it has a duff HYDRAULIC CAM FOLLOWER that is leaking down when the engine is stopped, and is taking too long to fill up and pump up to create "zero lash".

If you get an engine stethoscope that has a rod for a probe, you will be able to pin the noise down almost to the one tappet involved if you listen carefully.

Does the noise quieten down after a wee while running?

My SAAB manual said not to worry unless the noise lasted more than FIFTEEN MINUTES!

In very cold conditions hydraulic cam followers can take a while to fill up.

The other thing it sounds like it might be is over-fuelling.

If you are applying ANY throttle when cranking her over to start, the injectors will think they are in PURGE MODE, and will fling in heaps of excess fuel (five times as much?) thus flooding the cylinders, delaying starting, making a great clatter when it does start, and heaps of smoke.
That sort of seems familiar?

Does it eventually clear?

Let me know so when mine does it I have an idea of the cause.


CharlesY
 
Last edited:
mastermac said:
local indy i think mate but drive too far good luck. lets hope its something daft
Click to expand...


That was a bad move to start the engine with injectors unplugged.

I think that sort of thing causes the ECU to throw a fit.

If I were you I wouldn't do that again.

How SURE are you you didn't put in petrol?

Mine behaved like you say for a full week after I got the petrol all used up, and it is still OK now after 18 months.

CharlesY
 
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