TD4 112HP starting problem

Hi Folks,

I've been battling this problem near on a year...my TD4 2L 3door 2004(BMW engine) runs smooth every time, starts immediately on first start of day everytime, connected to an OBD 2 diag PC which states no problems. Here's what I've done so far, and most recent progress is - three amigos now regularly appear on dash (TC and HDC lights stay on after ignition sometimes, with a 'loud buzzing sound' coming from around the engine fuse box at key pos 2, not started,...when I opened the fuse box in the engine, it's like one of the relays or something that sounds electrical buzzing you hear around sub stations!

The diag of course didn't pick up the TC and HDC faults, so unless l fork out another 400 quid for Hawkeye...probably best just going to a dealer and pray they are partially honest in feedback!

Here's what I've done so far guys:
1. Changed cam sensor
2. Changed crank sensor
3. Changed coolant temp sensor
4. Changed intake air temp sensor
5. Changed maf sensor
6. Changed air filter
7. Changed oil filter
8. Changed oil separator to BMW cyclone model
9. Cleaned egr

I've bought a fuel pump but haven't fitted yet (there's only one pump as far as I know located under drivers side rear wheel arch).

So what next? Scrap metal? lol

Basically the problem occurs when the engine gets hot, the hotter the engine (and outside temperature) the longer it takes to crank up the engine. The most recent update is promising I hope...the buzzing sound from the battery compartment is clearly linked to it ...?

Thanks in advance for reading my post, hope your expertise can guide this struggling Land Rover enthusiast on the right off road soon

Anthony

Check out 3 amigos for starters

Epicuser said:

Check out 3 amigos for starters

Click to expand...

Thanks Epi, reading through the three amigo posts on landy zone it appears most are linked to break lights not working or abs problem. My break lights work so could be abs...probably best to book a diagnostic check at dealer and drive over with the three amigos on, see what their diag reads

ajfarrell said:

Hi Folks,

I've been battling this problem near on a year...my TD4 2L 3door 2004(BMW engine) runs smooth every time, starts immediately on first start of day everytime, connected to an OBD 2 diag PC which states no problems. Here's what I've done so far, and most recent progress is - three amigos now regularly appear on dash (TC and HDC lights stay on after ignition sometimes, with a 'loud buzzing sound' coming from around the engine fuse box at key pos 2, not started,...when I opened the fuse box in the engine, it's like one of the relays or something that sounds electrical buzzing you hear around sub stations!

The diag of course didn't pick up the TC and HDC faults, so unless l fork out another 400 quid for Hawkeye...probably best just going to a dealer and pray they are partially honest in feedback!

Here's what I've done so far guys:
1. Changed cam sensor
2. Changed crank sensor
3. Changed coolant temp sensor
4. Changed intake air temp sensor
5. Changed maf sensor
6. Changed air filter
7. Changed oil filter
8. Changed oil separator to BMW cyclone model
9. Cleaned egr

I've bought a fuel pump but haven't fitted yet (there's only one pump as far as I know located under drivers side rear wheel arch).

So what next? Scrap metal? lol

Basically the problem occurs when the engine gets hot, the hotter the engine (and outside temperature) the longer it takes to crank up the engine. The most recent update is promising I hope...the buzzing sound from the battery compartment is clearly linked to it ...?

Thanks in advance for reading my post, hope your expertise can guide this struggling Land Rover enthusiast on the right off road soon

Anthony

Click to expand...

hi mate

sounds like you've been having fun , not

have u read this by any chance

http://www.tuning-diesels.co.uk/app/download/5787551401/75-zt-td4+FAULT+DIAGNOSIS.pdf

plus where abouts in the uk are u plse as someone may be near u with a hawkeye

ps fitting an oem fuel pump and filter seems to be the best option as the cheaper ones seem to fail prematurely

hope that may help a little bit

The brake pedal switch contains two switches, one for the brake lights and one for the ABS.
The ABS switch can fail but the brake lights will still work.

it is not only the brake light switch that can switch on the three amigos do a search on here there is lots of info including the gravity sensor next to the hand brake can cause it I would first swap that relay chattering on a relay can cause over heating of it next you could have a fire.

ajfarrell said:

three amigos now regularly appear on dash (TC and HDC lights stay on after ignition sometimes

Click to expand...

So do you have the 3 Amigos - or just 2? Your description is not clear. You should get 3 lights lit when you turn the ignition on - that's a normal self test and if you don't get the 3 lit there's a problem. Depending on model, the TC & HDC lights should go out after a period of time (a couple of seconds) and the ABS ether the same or when the car's up to (about) 5MPH. If they stay on longer than these periods then there is a problem. Rave will give you an indication of possible reasons for faults dependant on which lights are lit - but as you've said, a code reader is the only real way to fix ABS related issues.

If there is a problem then there will also be codes for a reader to download. Freelanders have very differing levels of 'ODBII' support dependant on model and year. I don't know if a 'standard' ODB reader will list ABS module fault codes on your car. What ever, you don't need a Hawkeye, the iCardsoft i930 reader at 1/4 the price will definitely read ABS faults on Freelander - but please check that on their docs against your model first before taking my word.

I haven't a clue what the buzzing is that you are getting - maybe just a faulty relay. However, it would seem prudent to identify/fix this first as it appears to be easily identifiable and, as said, electrical faults can cause other seaming unrelated issues. Rave is your friend when identifying what each relay is for, which might give you an idea of whether its simply the relay that needs replacing or whether there's some other fault causing the relay to pulse/buzz.

I'm not sure how you can say the buzzing is linked to starting problems and/or the 2/3 amigos problems. It sounds like you've had starting problems long before this buzzing.

I think you need to identify and fix the buzzing, stick a code reader on to find the amigos problem if there is one and then come back to the starting issue. If you put a Freelander code reader on the car, it may also give you more help than a standard ODB reader for the starting problem.

Many thanks for your comments folks, a quick update for you:

I purchased a icarsoft930 (thanks for ref Gel), and it displayed the following codes for the ABS:
C1148 No CAN message from engine ECU
C1154 CAN signal engine speed error

I cleaned the relay contacts which has stopped buzzing, have you any good provider recommendation to buy replacements? (The 'R' yellow relays in engine box)

The engine codes showed faulty MAF and CAM sensor but since I already replaced these recently these codes must be related to previous faults. So I cleared them and they have stayed away. I cleared the above mentioned ABS codes but they returned after a drive so they are still to get fixed. Any ideas as to how to fix the CAN problem?

Car still cranks over for 10 or more seconds before kicking in, would this be linked to the ABS fault?

Some figures from live monitoring:

Coolant T: 68.05
Inlet T: 31.05
Airflow: 400mg/stroke
Manifold pressure: 99kPa
Low pressure supply: 200 at starting crank to 318.30 at engine finally running
High pressure fuel rail: 28,658kPa
Fuel pressure regulator current: 0.68
Engine speed: 782RPM
Pedal 1 demand: 0.75%
Pedal 2 demand: 0.37%
Sensor supply 1: 4.99V
Sensor supply 2: 4.99V
Battery Voltage: 14.33V (12V on start)
Capacitor 1: 77.67V

Thanks for reading gents,

Anthony

Hi folks, just to update I'm still unable to solve my warm start problem.

Engine cranks for about 20 seconds before what appears a very smooth start, it's as uv something very clearly is impeeding the starting process from happening for that 20 seconds...

I did a diag and found a power problem to A/C system (P03515) and a CAN signal error for the TC. But these errors weren't present a year ago when the problem began in earnest.

Brought to a mechanic and he said could be temperature sensor, told him I replaced both intake air temp and coolant temp sensors.

Perhaps it's a signal disruption between ECU and CAM sensor when hot...
Or perhaps the battery power drops when terminal heat up/may be loose...
Or could be the ECU relay, or could be starter motor or could be pump????

Any leads much appreciated.

Thanks,

A

if it was the starter motor the it would not turn over would it? you have replace the cam sensor so should not be that unless you have a faulty one where did you get the new one from if it was new was it in a sealed bag, glad you have cleaned the contacts on the relay, it does sound like fuel starvation for some reason.

Try a leak back test maybe one or more of the injectors are leaking, happened to a friend recently, we did leak back test and two were leaking changed them for good ones and problem solved.

teddywood1 said:

if it was the starter motor the it would not turn over would it? you have replace the cam sensor so should not be that unless you have a faulty one where did you get the new one from if it was new was it in a sealed bag, glad you have cleaned the contacts on the relay, it does sound like fuel starvation for some reason.

Click to expand...

Thanks,

Yea the cam sensor was new sealed BMW part. The old cam sensor showed up with fault on diag. And hasn't appeared since deleting and replacing.

Could be wiring harness, need to get the multimeter out

A