TC and ABS

Dear wise ones...

Just a query re the ABS and traction control... I am finding that my traction control on my 2000 TD5 seems over sensitive and comes on with the slightest slippage.. This is mildly annoying as my old defender was TC less and seemed much better at locking it diff and seemed to respond better in muddy and icy conditions.. Now this has caused me a concern...

I will be driving to Switzerland in the winter which I normally do and going through some serious snow and Ice in the mountain roads. I am hesitant with my Disco.. It is sad to say, but I would be far more confident with my old defender. This is two reasons, I am worried that the TC will just not give the traction to the wheels or lock the diff as there seems to be no diff lock par say.. I am also worried that the ABS will cause more problems than it is worth. Trying to stop the beast in the snow and ice is not fun. In fact, It just seems to not stop!!!!

My question is this really, 1. Can I disconnect the ABS reasonably without causing ECU issues?
2. Can I permanently lock the diff so that the TC will not interfere?

This may seem like an ignorant question to which I apologise, but I am just used to my defender which I could do everything manually with.

Thanks, thoughts would be appreciated and your comments of how your disco survived in the snow??

Thanks,

MudRat

You cannot drive around on the road with a locked centre diff as the transmission will wind itself up and then something will break horribly.

You can DISABLE the TC if you want to - in fact, if you fit the diff lock manual linkage, the TC will automatically be disabled when this is engaged.

David

The tc v difflock is an interesting one. I personally see the benefits in both, the difflock will not stop a wheel spinning it only ensures the engine power is 50/50 front and rear. So if you have one wheel spinning on each axle then the front and rear diffs will allow all the power to go to the spinning wheels i.e. loosing all the engine power. The tc can in theory have all the power through one wheel.

You say that it comes on early, you will probably find that with your difflock a wheel could break traction and you would be unaware because the other axle still has 50% of the power and no forward momentum is lost. But the tc system senses the wheel breaking traction and applies the abs to try and slow the wheel down and help it regain traction. The power is transferred to the rest of the wheels via the diffs to keep momentum. When the tc comes on you hear the abs pump and see the light and sometimes feel the judder of the abs.

I think that the tc system is a good one and will also help if you get into a little slide in the snow (notice I said little slide, it can't change the laws of physics) as it can apply brakes to individual wheels which can help regain control. Having said that the difflock can be a great help in stopping you getting into trouble in the first place.

Hope this helps

MudRat said:

Dear wise ones...

Just a query re the ABS and traction control... I am finding that my traction control on my 2000 TD5 seems over sensitive and comes on with the slightest slippage.. This is mildly annoying as my old defender was TC less and seemed much better at locking it diff and seemed to respond better in muddy and icy conditions.. Now this has caused me a concern...

I will be driving to Switzerland in the winter which I normally do and going through some serious snow and Ice in the mountain roads. I am hesitant with my Disco.. It is sad to say, but I would be far more confident with my old defender. This is two reasons, I am worried that the TC will just not give the traction to the wheels or lock the diff as there seems to be no diff lock par say.. I am also worried that the ABS will cause more problems than it is worth. Trying to stop the beast in the snow and ice is not fun. In fact, It just seems to not stop!!!!

My question is this really, 1. Can I disconnect the ABS reasonably without causing ECU issues?
2. Can I permanently lock the diff so that the TC will not interfere?

This may seem like an ignorant question to which I apologise, but I am just used to my defender which I could do everything manually with.

Thanks, thoughts would be appreciated and your comments of how your disco survived in the snow??

Thanks,

MudRat

Click to expand...

Take a class from land rover and learn to use the system you have ,read the owners manual from cover to cover tc and abs the best stuff going. learn to use it

140" of snow from nov thru april I just love tc and abs

I'll second John Winsemius on the 'take a class from Land Rover and learn to use the system you have'. Wise words indeed!! The majority of smashed up 4x4s I saw over last winter had come about because once you've got 2.5 tonnes of vehicle moving easily due to the extra traction, they just ain't as easy to stop!!! The laws of physics apply just as much to stopping as starting, and unfortunately too many 4x4 owners only find that out after it's too late! My Disco doesn't have abs at all (it was never fitted, thankfully, so one less thing to break!! lol) but it sure as hell doesn't make it easier to bring it to a halt on snow and ice. I've done a lot of off road and bad weather driving and the experiences I've had have taught me how to drive the vehicles within their limits.

sorry to hijack the thread, but it could help.
apart from the owners handbook. are there any books that someone could recommend that deal with driving in snow and ice?
ta.

The TC system is a good one, however you can still have a center diff lock if you wanted. some gearboxes have the internals still fitted, some not.

have a look at this link: Ashcroft Transmissions - Disco II Diff lock

so yes you can have a center diff lock, and you can also wire up overides for the TC.

I have the same issue on my 1999 TD5 Disco. I go over a small pothole or bump in the road and the TC cuts in but almost invariably when the offside front wheel is involved, rarely the nearside! I've also noticed that I have to constantly correct the steering as the car wanders a little. Is the TC sensitivity normal or does it appear to be too sensitive? Could it be that the suspension is starting to get worn and as such isn't holding the wheel to the road as well on the one side? Shocks or bushes maybe?

I've only recently put on new airsprings, HD track rods and 4 new Cooper Discoverer ATRs. The TC sensitivity and wander was there before those changes and is still there now.

tc works on same system as abs it shouldnt be sensitive wheras abs releases pressure to caliper to stop wheel locking when braking, tc applies brake to spinning wheel if opposite stops turning ,fitting diff lock wont effect tc ,buti have had similar effects with hd as well due to partly worn wheel brgs and old sensors where getting intermittent signal due to gap changing etc under certain conditions,find someone with hawkeye etc to read stored faults

Discotigger said:

I'll second John Winsemius on the 'take a class from Land Rover and learn to use the system you have'. Wise words indeed!! The majority of smashed up 4x4s I saw over last winter had come about because once you've got 2.5 tonnes of vehicle moving easily due to the extra traction, they just ain't as easy to stop!!! The laws of physics apply just as much to stopping as starting, and unfortunately too many 4x4 owners only find that out after it's too late! My Disco doesn't have abs at all (it was never fitted, thankfully, so one less thing to break!! lol) but it sure as hell doesn't make it easier to bring it to a halt on snow and ice. I've done a lot of off road and bad weather driving and the experiences I've had have taught me how to drive the vehicles within their limits.

Click to expand...

People feel over confident with a 4x4 when they drive in bad weather. What they get is a false sense of security because they see other drivers having difficulty on the roads and they are just going along nicely. And when they get into a situation a form of panic sets in and don't know what to do.

When you drive it doesn't mater the weather ,you need to drive at least 2 cars ahead of you, looking at break lites ahead and anything else that could indicate a problem of concern.

thats because not enough people grow up on small farms and learn about driving from young age,especially,traction,momemtum,centre of gravity etc

thats because not enough people learn about driving by growing up on small farm ,you learn about traction,momentum,center of gravity etc

I take my tD5 to the mountains every year and traction control and ABS are fantastic. You can boot her on snow and the system will do all the work. Brakes are great too but you must take care in snow and ice. 2 tons is 2 tons whatever the system and it doesn't want to come to a halt easily.

yeah found mine great in snow to get going but the stopping part was a bit unnerving

thought it was mine! said:

yeah found mine great in snow to get going but the stopping part was a bit unnerving

Click to expand...

you were over driving your landie, to fast for conditions. Could also be not driving very often in those condition's

MudRat said:

Dear wise ones...

Just a query re the ABS and traction control... I am finding that my traction control on my 2000 TD5 seems over sensitive and comes on with the slightest slippage.. This is mildly annoying as my old defender was TC less and seemed much better at locking it diff and seemed to respond better in muddy and icy conditions..
MudRat

Click to expand...

Whippet said:

I have the same issue on my 1999 TD5 Disco. I go over a small pothole or bump in the road and the TC cuts in but almost invariably when the offside front wheel is involved, rarely the nearside! I've also noticed that I have to constantly correct the steering as the car wanders a little. Is the TC sensitivity normal or does it appear to be too sensitive? Could it be that the suspension is starting to get worn and as such isn't holding the wheel to the road as well on the one side? Shocks or bushes maybe?

I've only recently put on new airsprings, HD track rods and 4 new Cooper Discoverer ATRs. The TC sensitivity and wander was there before those changes and is still there now.

Click to expand...

Resurrecting this thread because I have this issue as well I think - although it is the near side front that always seems to have the power cut to it. If I drive through even the slightest bit of mud the TC cuts in and I lose power.

Is there anything obvious that I should be looking for? Could it be a dodgy / lose sensor or something? I loved my old TD5 Defender 90 because you could simply boot it and make good progress down lose dirt tracks. With the Disco and the TC sensitivity that I seem to have you just can't! (I know it is not a rally car but every now and then you need / want to be able to power through the lose stuff rather than crawl through it.)

"TC cuts in and I lose power" ? Do u mean momentum, if so perhaps the sensitivity is down to the tyres your using or their condition, so should be considering their replacement to something more grippy. After all the TC is only responding to loss of traction.
If not then let us know in what way the engine is losing power.

I have got General Grabber AT2 tyres which have tons of tread left on them so hopefully they are not the cause.

In terms of engine power, well the engine has been poorly for a while anyway (currently at the fixers for new MAF, fuel pump, decat exhaust and EGR removal) but when the TC cuts in I get this "brdrdrdrdrd " noise and basically the power seems to be cut - pressing the throttle makes no difference, the car just bogs down until the TC has stopped interfering and then it all goes back to as it was before. And as I say, it seems to be the front passenger wheel that is interfered with, but that could be me making assumptions. Either way, slightly slippery conditions in combination with any throttle = odd juddering noise (not a very good description but the best I can do at the mo) + loss of power (so yes, loss of ability to keep up the momentum). But to be clear we are not talking huge mud pools here, just a wee bit of loose gravel - you know the stuff that is really fun to blast over on a dirt track normally.

Frankly I'd much rather use my right foot as the TC system and be able to spin the wheels as much as I like. Right now the car won't let me get any slip at all. Having said that I seem to remember that if I really boot it ( like dump clutch with a load of revs and keep my foot in) then I can get the car to do some fun stuff, but with a normal driving style it won't let me power out of anything other than pure clean tarmac.

Hi unfortunate my only experience of TC is on my car to stop it facing where I've just come from.
I believe that the procedure on a disco is loads of revs, and so nothing like just rolling along in diff lock and increasing engine power when required getting over an obstacle and such like.

The answer is in this post: https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/abs-fault-intermitent.263609/#post-3174091