teddywood1
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is there any change the by leaving it for months sediment has settled eith in the fuel pump or filter and not much fuel can get through.
Taking Bets on CRANK/NO START
- Thread starter Samuels
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The scanner came in but we've had some rain lately so I haven't had the opportunity to pick up the Landy. Sedimentation is a possibility, I am going to retest the fuel pressure as soon as I get it back.
The only thing I don't like about a clogged pump/ filter (& maybe injectors) is that this problem did not happen gradually, it was instantly. Then after a few attempts to fix it, I was engulfed with school for months.
What about the Inertia switch? could disconnecting/reconnecting or jumping the car battery or a surge accidentally trip the inertia switch? Is it possible that the Inertia switch is my computer ground fault (still have not been able to verify there actually is a ground fault... that's just what I have been told) ?... Or is the inertia switch more like the immobilizer, and won't allow the vehicle to crank.
It cranks and has a strong fire up, but will not stay on. This is why I think it's electrical & fuel related.
Nodge68
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It sounds like a classic fuel pump problem to me.
The inertia switch kills the fuel pump and unlocks the doors. So if the ignition is turned on and the are doors locked. The doors will unlock automatically. It's a safety feature to kill the pump and unlock the doors in an impact.
The inertia switch kills the fuel pump and unlocks the doors. So if the ignition is turned on and the are doors locked. The doors will unlock automatically. It's a safety feature to kill the pump and unlock the doors in an impact.
Yes, sir. Thank you.
I was curious because the Inertia switch is part of the CCU circuit, and was thinking that If it the switch was triggered by stray voltage/etc.. that it would interrupt the CCU grounding. It appears to be downstream from the ignition so I suspected that this would allow me to turn the key, prime, and crank. but would immediately disengage fuel supply.
Hopefully Ill have some information (instead of theories) by the time my brothers in the UK are up and about.
Thanks again.
I was curious because the Inertia switch is part of the CCU circuit, and was thinking that If it the switch was triggered by stray voltage/etc.. that it would interrupt the CCU grounding. It appears to be downstream from the ignition so I suspected that this would allow me to turn the key, prime, and crank. but would immediately disengage fuel supply.
Hopefully Ill have some information (instead of theories) by the time my brothers in the UK are up and about.
Thanks again.
No fault codes today.,, I was able to stop by the mechanics before he closed shop.. but couldn't get the darn OBDII reader to pair. Confirmed you were right not the inertia switch... although for some reason it was rewarding to find it and press the big red button.
I tried to start it a couple times, instead of the "fire up and quickly dying" as noted before. It seemed to be a little more enthusiastic, firing up then chugging to its death.
I did notice some cracked/slightly exposed wire on the spark plugs and on the alternator. I taped the alternator one as it was easily accessible. The mechanic suggested that it was likely what shorted the computer.
Just out of curiosity. What safety features exist that would allow the engine to be primed, cranked, fired but cut off?
Crank position sensor? cam position sensor? I have read there is a leak detector/sensor... I do recall not having an injector set property when doing the thermostat replacement. it was leaking from the outside onto the engine. I think it was running at that time and I couldn't get it to come back on shortly after that, though i really cant remember.
I tried to start it a couple times, instead of the "fire up and quickly dying" as noted before. It seemed to be a little more enthusiastic, firing up then chugging to its death.
I did notice some cracked/slightly exposed wire on the spark plugs and on the alternator. I taped the alternator one as it was easily accessible. The mechanic suggested that it was likely what shorted the computer.
Just out of curiosity. What safety features exist that would allow the engine to be primed, cranked, fired but cut off?
Crank position sensor? cam position sensor? I have read there is a leak detector/sensor... I do recall not having an injector set property when doing the thermostat replacement. it was leaking from the outside onto the engine. I think it was running at that time and I couldn't get it to come back on shortly after that, though i really cant remember.
Nodge68
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Sounds like a fuel issue. It won't be the ECU if it's firing. The ECU is well protected from external shorts and voltage spikes. It definitely sounds like a fuel problem to me. Is the pump running and pressurising the fuel system to over 60Psi?
I agree. There wasn't a blown fuse or anything. He even told me "these computers go bad all the time"
There was a stray black wire curled up in the engine bay. At first I thought he was using it to try to bypass something (like starter relay, etc..) however now I am wondering if there is indeed a "ground fault", just not with the computer.
I do also think that it is odd my landy has moved since I towed it there. They could have rolled it back into its current position, but the wheels are awfully straight for reversing it into that position without power steering...
Are there any grounding points under the hood related to fuel delivery or would mimic my symptoms?
There was a stray black wire curled up in the engine bay. At first I thought he was using it to try to bypass something (like starter relay, etc..) however now I am wondering if there is indeed a "ground fault", just not with the computer.
I do also think that it is odd my landy has moved since I towed it there. They could have rolled it back into its current position, but the wheels are awfully straight for reversing it into that position without power steering...
Are there any grounding points under the hood related to fuel delivery or would mimic my symptoms?
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The fault codes:
p303. p304 ( i think these are misfires)
P1477 Variable Intake Manifold Actuator 2 –Circuit Low Voltage: Short Circuit to Ground/Open Circuit or No Signal
P1472 Variable Intake Manifold Actuator 2 - Valve Always Open: Short Circuit to Ground
p303. p304 ( i think these are misfires)
P1477 Variable Intake Manifold Actuator 2 –Circuit Low Voltage: Short Circuit to Ground/Open Circuit or No Signal
P1472 Variable Intake Manifold Actuator 2 - Valve Always Open: Short Circuit to Ground
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Nodge68
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You can ignore the vis codes. Just unplug the motors for the time being.
P0303, P0304 are misfiring on cylinders 3 and 4.
P0303, P0304 are misfiring on cylinders 3 and 4.
Yes, that was my first step today I shrugged off the VIS and misfire codes, as i think they are a symptom.. And after 7 hours out there fiddling around with stuff I noticed a few things:
I cleaned off multiple grounding points and confirmed all but the ones for the radio behind the dash....
I cleaned many header harnesses and inspected wires related to fuel pump/ignition....
After clearing the codes and trying to start it, I could NOT get the codes (or any new ones to pop up)..
I was able to start it a couple times and have the the engine respond to me pressing on the pedal (though not very well
) then the idle chugged to its death.... I found this very interesting.
I was able to get code 1477 again when I pressed on the accelerator, but I think this is because of the popping in the inlets.
I noticed the toque pro app said: Fuel system status: "open loop due to insufficient air temperature" I did some googling and unplugged the air temp sensor... and this seemed to help the idle a bit, although it surged... it didnt go straight to cutting off (some of the time) I then tried the MAF, and the other sensor on the intake (not the throttle) yielding similar results.
I think the most interesting thing i noticed though, was towards the end of my venture I COULD NOT get it to fire... just crank crank crank crank....
shortly after these final attempts the battery was no longer sufficient to crank.
I think this means the fuel pump wasnt getting sufficient voltage to operate...
This would also explain not being able to pull any codes (from what I have read there isnt a sensor for the fuel pump)
So, cleaning grounding points in the engine bay seemed to help with the idle, The output of the battery also seemed to play a role. no codes. popping in the inlets due to lean mixture.
I did also notice that most the fuses appear burnt (not blow) any reason for this?
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@Nodge68
I found a bone ( a very large bone) under the radiator and lots of leaves and debris in the "V" when I bought my Landy
I think a blocked cat would explain my symptoms... Don't you?
I suppose I'll pack the drill along with the multi-meter for Monday
Nodge68
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It's possible to have a blocked cat. Check for smoke and pressure pulses at the tailpipe.
I think you could have a throttle plate problem. They are a failure point, so it's worth checking it for function, or replace it.
Back when it was running, landy farted a cloud of smoke, I figured it may have sucked down some carbon build up.
I removed the throttle wire harness, this did not result in any positive results while cranking.
When inspecting the FP harness I noticed the main WP wire was quite stiff... made me wonder if the wire is burnt from the FP trying to suck gas from a dirty filter... I'd imagined it might feel trying to suck an egg through a straw.
I've been sifting through the forums again to see if I can'f find any new clues to what may be wrong with my landy and other than the 'blocked cat' lead, I think it is worth noting that I cannot lock (or unlock) the doors with the door buttons (which i think someone linked to no start, ECU problem).
Maybe it is the ECU, considering most of my fuses have tarnish-looking marks on them and one of my main grounds (C0550) and (C0553) looked pretty rough...
I love diagnosing and fixing things, but I have been reading and studying circuit diagrams for day to no avail. If I had the money I would absolutely just start throwing parts at it now lol
I removed the throttle wire harness, this did not result in any positive results while cranking.
When inspecting the FP harness I noticed the main WP wire was quite stiff... made me wonder if the wire is burnt from the FP trying to suck gas from a dirty filter... I'd imagined it might feel trying to suck an egg through a straw.
I've been sifting through the forums again to see if I can'f find any new clues to what may be wrong with my landy and other than the 'blocked cat' lead, I think it is worth noting that I cannot lock (or unlock) the doors with the door buttons (which i think someone linked to no start, ECU problem).
Maybe it is the ECU, considering most of my fuses have tarnish-looking marks on them and one of my main grounds (C0550) and (C0553) looked pretty rough...
I love diagnosing and fixing things, but I have been reading and studying circuit diagrams for day to no avail. If I had the money I would absolutely just start throwing parts at it now lol
Nodge68
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The door locking thing is a red herring. The doors have nothing to do with the engine ECU. The Freelander has at least 6 separate ECUs. The doors are controlled by just 1 of them.
It's running, so it's "not" the ECU!!.
Have you done a fuel pressure test? It must be over 60 Psi at the test point. If you don't have that, you'll be wasting your time. There's no point in throwing random parts at it, if you aren't double checking the basics first.
It's running, so it's "not" the ECU!!.
Have you done a fuel pressure test? It must be over 60 Psi at the test point. If you don't have that, you'll be wasting your time. There's no point in throwing random parts at it, if you aren't double checking the basics first.
I had an exciting and adventurous day.
I rented fuel pressure tester... 0 PSI... So I beat the pump with a rubber mallet. I heard a *boing* which im assuming was the spring in the pump.
re-tested- 0 PSI... however I was able to unplug MAF and get my landy out of the mechanics yard and home in limp mode... tried a couple more times to get a reading...
I inspected the rental to find the rubber seal had been eaten up and pieces were lodged in the valve... cleared it out and flipped the seal around. Now I was able to get a pressure reading, but it fell rapidly... I thought I had a major leak... and I did, at the gauge end of the tester LOL I had gas leaking down my window... I took it back to the parts store and got another one. and was able to get actual results.
Priming did not supply more than 60 PSI. (~50 PSI)
I fired the engine up with MAF sensor on (this causes it chug to its death), and it did not maintain a FP of 60 PSI. I was able to press the throttle somewhat and it appears that when I opened the throttle the fuel pressure went up.
To measure with the vehicle at idle, I had to disconnect the MAF sensor. When I disconnected the MAF sensor the fuel pressure did become greater than 60 PSI (between 62-65)
pressure held for approximately 20 minutes at 62 PSI after I cut the engine off (after removing the MAF sensor to idle).
It's also popping in the inlets, however when I limped home without the MAF sensor, there was no popping.
So the MAF sensor is sending data to my good ECU about how much fuel to mix. If my pump is going out and the MAF is saying "Don't run at 100%" then it's not sending enough fuel to keep pressure
Unplugged it is sending no info and allowing the pump to work at 100%.... is that right?
I rented fuel pressure tester... 0 PSI... So I beat the pump with a rubber mallet. I heard a *boing* which im assuming was the spring in the pump.
re-tested- 0 PSI... however I was able to unplug MAF and get my landy out of the mechanics yard and home in limp mode... tried a couple more times to get a reading...
I inspected the rental to find the rubber seal had been eaten up and pieces were lodged in the valve... cleared it out and flipped the seal around. Now I was able to get a pressure reading, but it fell rapidly... I thought I had a major leak... and I did, at the gauge end of the tester LOL I had gas leaking down my window... I took it back to the parts store and got another one. and was able to get actual results.
Priming did not supply more than 60 PSI. (~50 PSI)
I fired the engine up with MAF sensor on (this causes it chug to its death), and it did not maintain a FP of 60 PSI. I was able to press the throttle somewhat and it appears that when I opened the throttle the fuel pressure went up.
To measure with the vehicle at idle, I had to disconnect the MAF sensor. When I disconnected the MAF sensor the fuel pressure did become greater than 60 PSI (between 62-65)
pressure held for approximately 20 minutes at 62 PSI after I cut the engine off (after removing the MAF sensor to idle).
It's also popping in the inlets, however when I limped home without the MAF sensor, there was no popping.
So the MAF sensor is sending data to my good ECU about how much fuel to mix. If my pump is going out and the MAF is saying "Don't run at 100%" then it's not sending enough fuel to keep pressure
Unplugged it is sending no info and allowing the pump to work at 100%.... is that right?
I have also noticed that the idle (without MAF) carries a constant 62 PSI from the FP.
The popping in the inlets does not occur until I have been idling for a bit. (still maintains FP pressure of 62-65)
I did go back to the tail pipe and there doesn't seem to be an even flow coming out... there are pressure pulses and the muffler shakes about.
What do you think about a clogged CAT creating the popping in the inlets and disrupting the MAF readings to ECU via to increased crank case ventilation ?
The popping in the inlets does not occur until I have been idling for a bit. (still maintains FP pressure of 62-65)
I did go back to the tail pipe and there doesn't seem to be an even flow coming out... there are pressure pulses and the muffler shakes about.
What do you think about a clogged CAT creating the popping in the inlets and disrupting the MAF readings to ECU via to increased crank case ventilation ?
Nodge68
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If the fuel pressure is 60+Psi , then that's good.
Are the plug leads in the correct sequence?
Are the injector plugs firm?
Can you see the throttle plate move when the pedal is pressed?
There's lots of double and triple checking to do.
I think we can safely say that the ECU is working fine
Are the plug leads in the correct sequence?
Are the injector plugs firm?
Can you see the throttle plate move when the pedal is pressed?
There's lots of double and triple checking to do.
I think we can safely say that the ECU is working fine
I idled for 2 hours without a misfire.
I MUST unplug MAF to idle. No throttle response.
If I keep the MAF connected, I can keep the engine on by keeping my foot on the gas or by revving. There seems to be a slight delay when revving.
During idle, I tried to out-smart the computer by plugging the MAF in... it sounded like it ran out of air and died.
Idle is about 750-1100 RPM. It appears adding load on the alternator (headlights, A/C compressor) HELPS the idle reach ~1000 and smooths out.
when turning off my the inside illumination, i noticed the stereo flickered slightly, each time I did it.
Short term fuel trim 1 is 27%
Long term banks were around -25. (two of them were at 0 but the other banks gave readings around -25)
Vacuum was -29. mmHg
electrical load was 18% +/- 3
Throttle plate angle was between 13 degrees and 16 degrees
I also had an extra IACV that I threw on, which did nothing.
I was unable to pull any codes, pending codes were VIS and MAF removal...
What should I do from here besides beat my head against the wall?
I'd like to know more about how the computer compiles its data to make decisions- does there exist a comprehensive thread or material so that I can become more informed?
Thank you
I MUST unplug MAF to idle. No throttle response.
If I keep the MAF connected, I can keep the engine on by keeping my foot on the gas or by revving. There seems to be a slight delay when revving.
During idle, I tried to out-smart the computer by plugging the MAF in... it sounded like it ran out of air and died.
Idle is about 750-1100 RPM. It appears adding load on the alternator (headlights, A/C compressor) HELPS the idle reach ~1000 and smooths out.
when turning off my the inside illumination, i noticed the stereo flickered slightly, each time I did it.
Short term fuel trim 1 is 27%
Long term banks were around -25. (two of them were at 0 but the other banks gave readings around -25)
Vacuum was -29. mmHg
electrical load was 18% +/- 3
Throttle plate angle was between 13 degrees and 16 degrees
I also had an extra IACV that I threw on, which did nothing.
I was unable to pull any codes, pending codes were VIS and MAF removal...
What should I do from here besides beat my head against the wall?
I'd like to know more about how the computer compiles its data to make decisions- does there exist a comprehensive thread or material so that I can become more informed?
Thank you
Nodge68
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It sounds like the MAF could be faulty. Disconnecting it puts the ECU into a fault condition, which allows it to run the engine at reduced performance.
This is from the manual.
This is from the manual.
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