Taking Bets on CRANK/NO START

Alright Fellas, I have tried my darnedest to figure this out without starting a new thread but I have no more walls to beat my head against.

This is a 2004 Freelander HSE kv6 NAS.

This vehicle was running when I bought it, however it was leaking at the thermostat. I replaced the thermostat and local gaskets. Vehicle was RUNNING, however I also had a leak at the hose. I repaired that. Since this vehicle was a project and I was finishing up my thesis report at the time I left it sitting in the back yard for about 6 months. Now it refuses to start.

When I turn the key, the cylinders fire, (typically a high rev the first few attempts) but does not stay o.
And by not stay on I mean it dies instantly.

However, If I hold my foot on the gas pedal just right, it will come on. Often backfiring (popping), though, once i release my foot it dies instantly.

There was one time was able to hold my foot just right and throw it into gear. I was able to drive around the block twice. HOWEVER, I could not accelerate. any pressure on the gas pedal would have no effect. When I went to climb the small incline of my driveway, the Freelander compensated for this, however I still had no control over acceleration.

I have replaced plugs and coils, air filter, changed oil and coolant.
It is now at the local mechanic (not Land Rover, as they are very far away from me)
It is getting proper fuel pressure, and there are no vacuum leaks.
It has new gasoline. all fuses are Okay.

so it has fuel, compression and spark.

It seems to me that there is an electrical problem, and is cutting off the fuel supply... considering that I am able to keep it on (sometimes) with pressure on the pedal. (however release causes it to die, and when thrown into drive pressure on the pedal has no effect) It seems to be running rich, and causing the popping.

The mechanic has had it for weeks now and has went over all my diagnostic efforts (because he thinks I am not mechanically inclined).

He says he is going to get a friend of his that has the SPECIAL LAND ROVER scanner to run the codes.
However, this town is teeming with mechanics that will lie to you about the problem to score some extra dough.

Please, any expert thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

104,000 miles

"popping" through the inlet is a symptom of a weak mixture not a rich mixture , and could also be a timing problem or air leak, you need a diagnostic machine matey

Moron said:

"popping" through the inlet is a symptom of a weak mixture not a rich mixture , and could also be a timing problem or air leak, you need a diagnostic machine matey

Click to expand...

Thank you.
The first time i was able to drive it around the block, I disconnected the MAF sensor. It was some time ago, however I recall that once it was running and in drive it did not make the popping noise in the inlet. I had no control over the acceleration though, it was in "creep" mode.

the fact that I was able to drive it around the block is what led me away from a timing issue and BACK to an air leak (after i swapped out the MAF)

The popping noise only occurs when I try to force the engine to stay on by pressing on the gas pedal. ( and why I thought it was indicative of a rich mixture).

From what I have read, these are not OBDII compliant? I will absolutely have to take it in to a Land Rover dealership (tow it two hours, and dish out tons of cash) or dish out a ton of cash on a special reader?
Any recommendations on a cheap reader?

Thanks for your support.

I had an earlier V6 and I was able to get a load of info out of it with a £10 ELM327 bluetooth ODBII reader and Torque Pro on my phone, including fault codes, sensor readings etc.

davidsmith1307 said:

I had an earlier V6 and I was able to get a load of info out of it with a £10 ELM327 bluetooth ODBII reader and Torque Pro on my phone, including fault codes, sensor readings etc.

Click to expand...

Thank you, David.

VERY PECULIAR, the mechanic called me today and said that he had a friend come by with a Land Rover Scanner.
He said that HE COULD NOT READ THE ECU/CCU and that I need a new one... and that we would START there.
I am calling BULL SPIT because I had a bluetooth OBDII reader that was stolen (with my tool bag) similar to the one you mentioned. and I am fairly certain it was Land Rover compliant. I was able to get codes.(I do not remember the codes because this is when I set it aside to finish my final report for graduate school and I had second thoughts of their accuracy when I was told i needed the special reader.

However, the Land Rover Scanner SHOULD BE ABLE TO PICK UP SOMETHING IF A 20 $USD bluetooth OBDII could at least pull data

This dude is fcking with me right? I should go and tow it home immediately right?

Well I didn't even buy a 'Land Rover Compatible' one... I bought a cheap one to use on a Volvo and it just worked on the Freelander.
I got the following:
Fault log report generated by Torque for Android
=================================================

Vehicle VIN: SALLNABG11AYxxxxxxx;
Vehicle Manufacturer: Rover
Vehicle Calibration ID: 111762620
6203l7a4

Current Fault Log
------------------
P0304: Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected
P1319: [Seat/Audi/Volkswagen] Knock Sensor 1 Circ. Short to Ground

P0138: O2 Sensor Circuit High Voltage (Bank 1 Sensor 2)

Pending Fault Log
------------------
ECU reports no pending faults

Historic Fault Log
------------------
ECU reports no historic faults
Other discovered fault codes
(possibly pending, current or manufacturer specific)
----------------------------------------------------
ECU reports no other fault codes logged

I'm not sure about the NAS spec being OBD2 compliant. However all EU spec KV6 Freelander's are OBD2 compliant.
I'm not sure why it's not running. However I do know that the NAS KV6 uses a drive by wire throttle body. These are known to fail on occasion. So the first check would be to make sure that is working.

Do you know what the actual fuel pressure is? It should be over 60Psi.

Thank you.

I thought the KV6 was OBDII compliant... that's why i bought the damn thing. However it was stolen months ago when I was away from home on a trip.
I am getting ready to move soon, so I thought this local mechanic may be able to speed up the process, but he is telling me that "THE SPECIAL LAND ROVER SCANNER IS NOT READING THE ECU AND THAT I NEED A NEW ONE"

This just cannot be possible, right?

I'd not take his word for it. It sounds very suspicious that it needs a ECU. They don't go wrong often. Even if they do, they can still be read on a diagnostic tests. What was this "special LR" diagnostic tool?

Thank you, Nodge68

This is the exact reason I started doing my own mechanic work in the first place. I was short on time however, and thought he would speed this up a bit but he's already had it for WEEKS.

I checked the fuel pressure my self (months ago) and if my memory serves me right it was within spec. My next step was to test the injectors themselves...

Nevertheless, I must go get my Landy before I can help you help me.



I really appreciate your help brother

To be exact, I had this scanner: BAFX Products 34t5 Bluetooth OBDII Scan Tool for Android Devices
Amazon product

As far as I know. Any generic OBD2 reader or Bluetooth adapter should work with it. If you have a Droid, the Torque or Torque Lite will work fine with an ELM327 BT adapter. The ELM327 can be bought off Ebay for a few bucks

If it's a 2004 petrol, it should be OBDII, unless it's a pre-reg or an old stock item with a later reg.
I'm with @Nodge68 , go with the throttle body first. From what you describe, it also sounds as if the fuel is igniting early, so a timing check is required.
I also doubt the ECU has died, even if it has, it should still throw a fault code.
Mike

I went to pick up the Freelander today from the mechanic and he changed from "cannot read ECM" to "ECM has a ground fault"
He wants me to purchase an ECM (which I may get from EBAY) and have someone at the local used car dealership who has "THE SPECIAL L/R scanner" to reprogram.... he also said the ECM was the only problem...

your thoughts?

Samuels said:

I went to pick up the Freelander today from the mechanic and he changed from "cannot read ECM" to "ECM has a ground fault"
He wants me to purchase an ECM (which I may get from EBAY) and have someone at the local used car dealership who has "THE SPECIAL L/R scanner" to reprogram.... he also said the ECM was the only problem...

your thoughts?

Click to expand...

That's only any good if the ECU is faulty (unlikely). When it doesn't work after reprogramming, what's the next step?. You could well be out of pocket, and still have a car that doesn't run. The ECU is the least likely thing to fail in my opinion.
However if it's cheap, it might be worth a gamble. I've not come across an ECU that failed to communicate, even if it has failed. Have the connections on the comm port been checked? They can spread and fail to make contact after lots of use.

If it has a ground fault then check the earth in the driver's footwell behind the carpet. But more likely it's inside the ECU itself, which is a case of pulling it to pieces and resoldering all the joints/connections. Which can be done, very carefully and using a good soldering iron that doesn't get too hot.
Mike

Thanks. I am finding it hard to believe it is the ECU the further I dig. I feel like if the ECU had shorted ther'd be a blown fuse. yet all fuses are fine. Unless in the months it was sitting a rodent chewed a wire downstream. Nevertheless, if it was a ground fault, as the mechanic is now saying, I feel like he should have checked the groundings before condemning the unit...

My heart says it is a fuel problem, too. After Moron corrected me that "the popping in the inlets was weak fuel mixture" I am wondering if a leaky or stuck injector is causing a reduction of pressure and that translates to the weak ratio, and therefore misfires. I think Nodge even mentioned the fuel injectors in a thread about someone with a TD4 suspected the ECM/ECU.

I wonder if it is possible if the time I was able to hold the gas pedal to force it to start and then throw it into drive and make my way around the block without being able to accelerate that, the fuel delivery system removed itself from the throttle circuit and just let me coast in an open-loop.(or my foot on the pedal made it possible for enough gas, given low pressure, to become mobile. but since could not build sufficient pressure in the line could not inject anything more to accelerate)

Thanks again. I will update with the codes if the scanner arrives before the mechanic closes his yard.I will also check the earth under the carpet as Mike has suggested.