Stupid Idea?? towing.

I have a disco 300 and I'm currently in the french alps. The problem is my 17 seat transit minibus is broken, I'm not sure what is wrong with it and do not want to get ripped of by one of the many dodgy french mechanics that I have had dealings with over the years...

so my plan is tow it back to the uk using a towing A frame that i just bought.

The transit is 4.1 ton mgw, but only about 2.1 ton unladen. The A frame is rated for 3.5 ton.

Im sure that its probably illegal on some level or another, but is it capable?

any ideas would be appreciated.

thanks

Easily capable .. it's a 'rolling weight' so you probably don't even need low box to start with .. Having said that, you're in the Alps, so low box might be a good idea to help keep control on downhills, try not to let it get away with you!!

As for legality it's probably over train weight, but not by a lot, unless the Disco is also loaded.

Have you worked out the cost of towing it all the way back to the uk ? Diesel / ferry ticket /time ! don't make sense to me get it fixed there.

I don't know about french towing laws, but when you get into the UK, you may have a few problems. If you are towing the vehicle on the A frame as a broken down vehicle, then you will need someone in the broken down vehicle to operate the lights and brakes, and plod may take a dim view of you driving on motorways, but towing weight limits don't apply. If you are towing it on an A-Bar with no one in the recovered vehicle, then it is classed as a trailer, and as such must comply with all regulations relating to lights, brakes and towing weights.

well to give an example we have a transit connect at work. It needed new disks and pads it came to €981 just for the parts compared to £250 on euro car parts...

ferry is only 50 quid and no tolls, as I don't fancy taking on the motorway!

anyone have any idea how legal it is?

well before towing it back to blighty get yourself a quote from said cheese eating garlic smelling mechanic and work out your costs and if its a simple failure then order the parts and have them shipped over if its a big failure then it might pay you to tow it over provided there is a person in the drivers seat to operate brakes and lights etc i wish you luck

I think you'll find the A frame will need a braking device fitted due to the weight of the Transit and under no circumstances must anyone travel in the Transit.

What he said.
My understanding is that the A frame effectively converts what it is attached to at either end into a single unit for English law - in practical terms a towing unit and a trailer, not two vehicles only one of which has power, therefore the Transit and its means of lighting and braking must comply with UK trailer requirements, so carrying anyone in it would be illegal.
The Motorhome guys are usually a good source of what is and isn`t possible with A Frames since so many of them tow runabouts behind motorhomes - have you tried them ?
In France I have no idea but my experience of French Police is that they usually have enough discretion to decide whether there is an offence or not based on very little empirical evidence and much more on how they feel, remember many motoring offences in France are on the spot fines - a good UK motoring organisation with European assistance will be able to be more definite but expect arguments either way.
That same motoring organisation might be a good source of recommendation for a good local mechanic - or alternatively see if there is a local 4x4 club ( might be of the rally raid persuasion but who cares if they know good local mechanics ).

martin1512 said:

I don't know about french towing laws, but when you get into the UK, you may have a few problems. If you are towing the vehicle on the A frame as a broken down vehicle, then you will need someone in the broken down vehicle to operate the lights and brakes, and plod may take a dim view of you driving on motorways, but towing weight limits don't apply. If you are towing it on an A-Bar with no one in the recovered vehicle, then it is classed as a trailer, and as such must comply with all regulations relating to lights, brakes and towing weights.

Click to expand...

I too don't know about the regs in france but the above is incorrect for the uk.

If it is broken down and able to steer using its own wheels (which is the case with an A frame) it needs to be braked so an A frame with overrun brakes is required. Intertrade are the only company that I know of that make them. If it is on a dolly or unable to steer using its own wheels then the 750kg braking regs don't apply.

As for lighting. Under the road lighting regulations 1989 section 6, subsection 7 parts a and b it just requires rear position marking lams to be fitted. (turn the sidelights on and you have actually fulfilled this requirement). You are highly likely to be pulled over by the police or VOSA or cause an accident by doing this so it is recommended that you put a lighting board on the back of the brokendown vehicle. If the lighting board has triangular reflectors you will need to obscure these as they will mis-represent the vehicle as a trailer and therefore you can still be prosecuted.

When are you looking at bringing the vehicle back to the UK?

You could join a breakdown club and then ring em when you get back to the uk.

If you decide to tow the minibus back, get as much weight in yer landy as possible to help keep control of the van. Also keep the speed down and make sure that you stop regularly to re-check the tension and condition of the straps.

it came up somewhere recently that it is legal to tow a broken vehicle off a uk motorway but illegal to tow one onto it.
for lights its normal practice is to use a trailer board on the back of the broken vehicle , you may need an extension lead.

have you looked at getting a friend out from the uk with rac cover.... and getting them recovered to the uk by the rac


might be worth looking on google to try and find a haulier wanting a return load to uk

ricc said:

it came up somewhere recently that it is legal to tow a broken vehicle off a uk motorway but illegal to tow one onto it.
for lights its normal practice is to use a trailer board on the back of the broken vehicle , you may need an extension lead.

have you looked at getting a friend out from the uk with rac cover.... and getting them recovered to the uk by the rac


might be worth looking on google to try and find a haulier wanting a return load to uk

Click to expand...

There are completely different regs for C and U and lighting regs for trailers, towing non broken down vehicles and towing brokendown vehicles.

dnorkett said:

I have a disco 300 and I'm currently in the french alps. The problem is my 17 seat transit minibus is broken, I'm not sure what is wrong with it and do not want to get ripped of by one of the many dodgy french mechanics that I have had dealings with over the years...

so my plan is tow it back to the uk using a towing A frame that i just bought.

The transit is 4.1 ton mgw, but only about 2.1 ton unladen. The A frame is rated for 3.5 ton.

Im sure that its probably illegal on some level or another, but is it capable?

any ideas would be appreciated.

thanks

Click to expand...

I know that you said that you don't know what is wrong with it but what are the symptoms that the transit is displaying?

Thanks for all of the advise, I had a bit of a search today and I'm 100% convinced that it is illegal to use one of these A frames in the uk (so same ish I guess for the rest of europe)
for those that are interested:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...n/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_200824.pdf

Makes you wonder how they can even sell them, the one I bought is rated at 3.5 ton.

Having said that, think I will still have a crack at it, ill just stick to the back roads!

The transit is sounding like a tractor (running rough) and there is a fair bit of white smoke coming out of the exhaust and a loss of power.

dnorkett said:

Thanks for all of the advise, I had a bit of a search today and I'm 100% convinced that it is illegal to use one of these A frames in the uk (so same ish I guess for the rest of europe)
for those that are interested:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consu...n/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_200824.pdf

Makes you wonder how they can even sell them, the one I bought is rated at 3.5 ton.

Having said that, think I will still have a crack at it, ill just stick to the back roads!

The transit is sounding like a tractor (running rough) and there is a fair bit of white smoke coming out of the exhaust and a loss of power.

Click to expand...

See post 9

might be easiest to get another engine and get it swopped over.... even yer dodgy mechanics should do it in a couple of days.... a good un should do it in one.

OK give us a bit more info on your Tranny.
What year is it and what engine does it have and all the symptoms you have ???

And where exactly do you intend to enter the uk with this long vehicle? If it is one of the busy ports you are unlikely to leave without an inspection before leaving the docks. They get bored.

White smoke loss of power I fink he said.

head gasket or turbo?

why not go back out there with a borrowed engine hoist, another engine and big box of tools and DIY !
take a helper/driver to bring it back,
oh, and a solid tow bar,
for justin.......case!


or just kick yourself for not arranging recovery cover before you went..

A frame does not help you , as its as you have discovered not strictly legal (anything over 750kgs) due braking . So if transit is legal ie tax mot ins just solid bar it with driver , perfectly legal , as its not illegal to tow BDV . Its not a trailer so does not require trailer triangles . Have you got flashing roof beacon for landy ? have decent on tow sign on back of transit , run with your lights on (not hazard flashers) If you look like you know what you are doing , then for the most part no one is going to question you . It broke down just a few miles back