Another A frame towing question

(UK)
I'd like to tow my 1985 Land rover 90 behind my Mercedes A class motorhome. My motorhome is more than capable of towing this weight without issue, but for info it weighs in at 3.5 tonnes, has a max weight of 4.5tonnes and has max tow train of 6.3 tonnes according to the stamp on the chassis. Already has a tow ball and I've towed my motorbike on a trailer before, so that bits fine.
Now, towing a Land Rover 90.
I'm sure I can tow it flat with an A frame, as long as I put everything in neutral. But has anyone towed with an a frame over some distance?

1) How do you hook up the brakes, UK laws are anything over 750kg should be braked. Was not an issue with my bike of course, but some how you have to make the vehicle brake the car. Any info on this will help.

2) what A frame have you used? I've seen them for around £300 that can tow this easily (Land rover is about 1.7tonnes), but would rather get a decent make that hooks up to the land rover easy enough.

I know, get a proper trailer and do that instead but if I'm going to spend £2k on a trailer, then I won't be taking the 90 on holiday with me, that's for sure.
In any case, I'm guessing it can't/should not be done, which is fine too.
Picture for the hell of it.

I believe motorhome types have an a frame that does brakes as well. However it sounds like whichever way you do it you would need C+E entitlement?

Kev12 said:

I believe motorhome types have an a frame that does brakes as well. However it sounds like whichever way you do it you would need C+E entitlement?

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I have the right license for over 750kg braked, that's not an issue. How would an A frame brake the vehicle, surely you would have to convert the land rover to brake when the motorhome brakes. Or are you saying with a commercial license you can tow higher unbraked?

No I'm saying over 3.5t with a trailer over 750kg is an artic as far as DVLA is concerned, not a car with a large trailer which everyone can now tow

I made an A frame once to tow my Mini to races, I checked with police about the legality and they told me that as long as the towed car isn't too big ( campers) then they turn a blind eye. Towed the Mini hundreds of miles without incident.
You will need brakes, the AA used to have a system that worked off the over run and activated a cylinder which pushed the towed car brake pedal via a contraption clamped in the car, wasn't very successful if I remember right.
Difficult one so best of luck

Caratow flat towing A frames for motorhomes use a alko style brake mechanism, that is the coupling hitch slides in a receiver on the frame and pushes a big lever. On my normal car trailer this lever pulls some rod brakes on the axles, but on car-a-tow it pulls a big link cable that lives on the car permanently, the other end of which attaches to the brake pedal and applies it manually. They also splice into the loom with a trailer plug you plug into your trailer connection to operate the lights/indicators, and supply a little clip on numberplate holder to go over the car numberplate.
They have a promo video that explains it.


Having said that, the restrictriction on what you tow behind your motorhome isn't just the engine power or total train weight. If its a alko etc based chassis, there's not much underneath the rear garage area unless its fitted with hd extensions and you are restricted on towing weight by the structure there which is typically why you see tiny cars being towed behind motorhomes. Its not a simple load either, the rear overhang between the axle and towbar creates a cantilever effect so its magnified and has to be calculated eg.

Its a big subject and probably best asked to a expert in the field who knows your particular chassis details.

On the 90 itself, there's a proceedure in the manual for flat towing, but the jury is out on if that's for just recovering it or its ok for a distance. I'd personally want to take the props off and strap them up each time but then I have a car trailer I can use instead so I've never really got into it.

What is an A-frame?​

An A-frame is a frame (shaped like an A) which is attached to the front of a vehicle (eg a car) to provide an attachment that allows the vehicle to be towed behind another vehicle (eg a motorhome). The department’s view of the legal position in Great Britain (GB) is outlined below.

Type approval of an A-frame​

Type approval of most new trailers became compulsory on 29 October 2012. However, the A-frame itself is neither a vehicle nor a trailer, and is therefore outside the scope of type approval.

Legal issues​

When an A-frame is attached to a vehicle (eg a motor car) we consider the A-frame and car temporarily become a single unit. When towed by another motor vehicle (eg motorhome) we believe that this single unit is, for the purposes of its construction, treated in GB legislation as a trailer.

As a consequence, the car and A-frame are required to meet the technical requirements for trailers when used on the road in GB. These requirements are contained within the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (SI 1986/1078) as amended (C&U) and the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (SI 1989/1796) as amended (RVLR).

It is important that the towed vehicle (car and A-frame assembly) braking system complies with the legal requirements. Regulations 15 of C&U set out the technical requirements for the braking systems of motor vehicles, first used on or after 1 April 1983 and for trailers manufactured on or after 1 October 1982. The minimum braking efficiencies, including those applying to the combination of the towing vehicle and the trailer, are set out in Regulation 18.

Subject to certain age exemptions, (the technical requirements for older vehicles are set out in Regulation 16) the regulation requires the braking system to comply with the construction, fitting and performance requirements of European Community Directive 71/320/EEC along with its various amending directives. Alternatively the braking system can comply with the corresponding UNECE Regulation No.13.09. Regulation 86A of C&U, regarding the use of a secondary coupling, also applies.

Trailers having a maximum laden weight not exceeding 750kg are not required to have brakes fitted. However, if the trailer (regardless of mass) is fitted with a braking system, then all brakes in that system must operate correctly and efficiently. This means that the braking systems of small ‘microcars’ (under 750kg in weight) must still operate, even when the vehicle is being towed. Unless the vehicle is broken down, when C&U makes special provision.

Regulation 18 of C&U requires the braking system to be maintained in good and efficient working order. Where a remote device is used to actuate the brake pedal of a trailer (including a car and A-frame assembly), the actuation device must be properly designed to ensure that the braking performance of the towed vehicle is suitably controlled to ensure the safe and stable braking of the vehicle combination (the towing vehicle and the trailer).

Modern vehicles may be equipped with a range of advanced safety features such as advanced emergency braking (AEB), electronic stability control (ESC), regenerative braking etc. These technologies may render the vehicle unsuitable for use with an A-frame.

Since 1 October 1988 inertia braking systems have been required to allow a trailer to be reversed by the towing vehicle without imposing a sustained braking drag. Devices used to fulfil this requirement must engage and disengage automatically. This applies to A-frames that employ inertia overrun technology.

Other provisions from Regulation 15 and Regulation 86A of C&U require the fitting and use of a secondary coupling system in which the trailer is stopped automatically if the main coupling separates whilst the combination is in motion. Alternatively, in the case of trailers up to a maximum mass of 1500kg, the drawbar must be prevented from touching the ground and the trailer able to retain some residual steering.

Users should consult both the vehicle manufacturer and the manufacturer of the A-frame device to ensure that all the requirements of the regulations can be met.

Whilst being towed, A-frame and car ‘units’ are subject to the relevant requirements (for trailers) given in RVLR, including the use of triangular red reflectors to the rear. There are also requirements for the display of the appropriate number plate on the rear of the towed ‘unit’.

Also of note from that page, if you get out and about as its a motorhome:

The views expressed above are only applicable for the UK. We understand that these view are not shared in other European countries and we would not recommend use of an A-frame outside the UK without some investigation of the rules that apply in the relevant country.


Also "Since 1 October 1988 inertia braking systems have been required to allow a trailer to be reversed by the towing vehicle without imposing a sustained braking drag. Devices used to fulfil this requirement must engage and disengage automatically. This applies to A-frames that employ inertia overrun technology" ... Whoops, my (UK origin) car trailer doesn't do this. It has a manual flip over spacer collar that restricts the brake slider that pushes the brake lever. It might predate this though as its on old bradbury axles with 1/4 unf stud mini wheels and it was old when I bought it in 2001. Reading round its done by a mechanism inside the trailer brakes in the wheels, which when reversed on a solid surface uses the torque to override the braking. I don't know how towacar deal with this but they cant use the brakes because the car brakes wont have this mechanism. Maybe its electrically locked out when the reverse lights are on or something...
But given how much scrutiny your going to get from VOSA or whatever they're calling themselves nowadays when flat towing a 90 behind a motorhome, I'd say its best to make sure the solution you end up with does this, and have all your paperwork in order and to hand...

MrF said:

Also of note from that page, if you get out and about as its a motorhome:

The views expressed above are only applicable for the UK. We understand that these view are not shared in other European countries and we would not recommend use of an A-frame outside the UK without some investigation of the rules that apply in the relevant country.


Also "Since 1 October 1988 inertia braking systems have been required to allow a trailer to be reversed by the towing vehicle without imposing a sustained braking drag. Devices used to fulfil this requirement must engage and disengage automatically. This applies to A-frames that employ inertia overrun technology" ... Whoops, my (UK origin) car trailer doesn't do this. It has a manual flip over spacer collar that restricts the brake slider that pushes the brake lever. It might predate this though as its on old bradbury axles with 1/4 unf stud mini wheels and it was old when I bought it in 2001. Reading round its done by a mechanism inside the trailer brakes in the wheels, which when reversed on a solid surface uses the torque to override the braking. I don't know how towacar deal with this but they cant use the brakes because the car brakes wont have this mechanism. Maybe its electrically locked out when the reverse lights are on or something...
But given how much scrutiny your going to get from VOSA or whatever they're calling themselves nowadays when flat towing a 90 behind a motorhome, I'd say its best to make sure the solution you end up with does this, and have all your paperwork in order and to hand...

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Yes, I've also been reading this. Not getting anyone who's done this, seems it's on top so, with the right stuff and some relatively simple mods. At the end of the day it's only a nice to have. The system shared above takes up to 1600kg. So it would have to be something more powerful. Definitely prefer a braked vehicle if that mass anyway. I'll keep digging.

I'd also suggest its a good idea to borrow a car trailer and see how the motorhome handles that in the real world. I have a square hitch reciever on a ducato coachbuilt motorhome and it has a custom reinforced hitch frame at the rear and auxillary airbags done by the previous owner so it could tow a etype classic racecar on a trailer, and its so bad in reality I dont use it like that (and I'm sure they tried it once or twice and thought "sod this..." and sold it)...