Steering Issue with 2 inch lift (wheels locking)

Hi guys

I have an 1988 TD 90 with a 300tdi disco engine and 380 box retro fitted with a disco 1:22 transfer.

I had a 2 inch lift kit fitted and opted for the Disco Double Carden joint at the front.

I notice that the steering is locking on tight turns - eg on the mini roundabouts. The wheels stop turning and the vehicle actually pushes the front tyres over the tarmac.

Is the lift giving me too much turn for some reason ie more than I had before, or is something locking? The tyres are unmarked at the sides and the sticks etc don't look like there has been any contact. It feels like th situation is getting worse.

I have heard of adjustments required for steering with lift kits but thought that was more to do with stability at speed.

Out of interest, my front prop could probably do with a spacer fitted as it is quite extended already from standing. I am going to remedy that tomorrow.

Thanks for any comments...

J

Hi James

it certainly don't sound too healthy, try taking the front prop off, put it in diff lock and see if the problem is still there. For my front prop i ended up with half disco and half defender, slightly longer.

Lee

have you fitted knobbly tyres? adjust you lock stops on ur axle! Sounds like they is rubbing your radius arms. Look for polish marks.

Jamesyboy said:

I had a 2 inch lift kit fitted and opted for the Disco Double Carden joint at the front.

I notice that the steering is locking on tight turns - eg on the mini roundabouts. The wheels stop turning and the vehicle actually pushes the front tyres over the tarmac.

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There's the possibility, I guess, that the prop isn't actually long enough and it's binding at the UJ and locking the wheel. Did they actually measure/check the lengths? or just bolt it upo 'cos 'Joe Smith' said it'd be OK?

Who fitted it and did they or you do anything else, like corrected radius arms, corrected swivels, lengthened steering rod etc etc ... it could be that 'they' fitted something wrongly. I'd take it back and ask them to sort it out!

Have you got wider wheels, different offset wheels, wheel spacer plates, stupidly large tyres etc etc ..

I'd also check the chassis and radius arms/other sticky out bits near the tyres on full lock for rubbing marks, it's possible that the tyres are catching on full lock and locking up.

I'd have thought that the prop would cause problems whether steering or not if a UJ was binding. More likely to be the wheel rubbing on the radius arm.

It sounds like wheels catching on the radius arms but I would have thought that he would have heard it rubbing.

ratty said:

It sounds like wheels catching on the radius arms but I would have thought that he would have heard it rubbing.

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Perhaps with the extra lift when it is on full lock the tyre tread edge can catch UNDER the leading arm and jam up?

If so there may not be the usual rubbing marks on the arm.

All he has to do is park it on full right lock and crawl under to check clearances. Then try full left lock.

Then adjust the lock-stops.

CharlesY

Hello all and thank you for the responses which are great.

I am working from the basic lift kit and adjusting as I need to. So far I have some whirring at the front prop area and a little banging at the rear when coming to a stop.

The whirring could be the bearing on the front diff where I have noticed an oil leak. The original prop wasn't up to it and could have done this particular damage, but it's been in there 22 years so a change is reasonable! Not a simple job but I'll do it with an old hand and learn as it's done.

The rear banging is not loud - more a knocking. It feels like the rear prop is not syncing with the front as I slow down and causing the knock - could be the bearing on the rear diff has too much play after 22 years also. The transfer box is recon'd so it's nice and tight. The handbrake is not binding so I am going to get a wide yoke for the rear, in addition to the stock Disco TD5 double carden at the front which also came with a wide yoke on the other end - I am putting a 20mm spacer in there at the diff end to sort out the length issue.

I will adjust the stops on my front wheels - thanks for this advice. I think the lift actually gives your wheels more turn which allows them to hit something like the sticks? The tyres are 7.50 16's expedition and same as before lift.

The joys of deduction and elimination. Sherlock was a saint! Of course Jeremy Brett made him a very cool saint ;-)

The proplem is most likely as mentioned already in terms of the inside of the wheels hitting the radius arms, however this will only affect pretty much full lock.

I think it is unlikely to be the prop shaft causing this, If it were to lock up only one wheel on the axle will skid on the road and that will be on the inside of the turn you are making.

What could be happening is that the diff is not working properly and that when turning a tight corner the lack of differential is causing the wheels to skid. This is easy to check jack one wheel up and it should spin freely. If the vehicle is in diff-lock this will make the effect worse.

i reckon the prop UJs are fecked and the yokes are clashing

Well Well
We need an answer, Don't put it on full lovk get out and look you will not find it locking up in this way with PAS. Get somone else to put it on full lock with the engine running until the steering wheel stops. then ave a look and see whats catching if the radius arm is not being rubbed you could try low range and get the person to drive forward on lock and you have a look/hear and see what is going on as you walk past the mota. You have checked its not in difflock havent you? just a thought

Hi and thanks for the suggestions.

My mate and I checked the steering in full lock while 90 was running - it isn't touching anything.

Can't understand why it locks up like this - it actually feels like someone is putting on the handbrake while I am trying a tight turn - I can feel the vehicle locking up.

I put the lift kit in at the same time as the 300tdi and 380 box were installed. Before I was on a 300tdi older engine and lt77 box which was no probs. I do think the diffs or their prop flange bearings are a bit worn - with props off I can turn them about 45 degrees before they actually lock onto the diff inside.

Out of interest, I am still using the original handbrake set-up from when this vehicle was a 90TD. I opened it up today and it doesn't appear to be binding and the springs are fine etc.

I am interesting in clashing yokes. How does this happen and how do I sort it? The props do not rattle or click when given a good shake while in situ. The yokes are good and tight with no resistance either.

How long have you had your landy for? I'm just wondering if you have a difflocker fitted that you aren't aware of.

A couple of years at least. These problems seem to be attached to the lift or new gearbox. I will check the diff lock thing physically now.
I just read that if a prop is marginally short - the UJ's can bind. Is this possible?

Sounds to me like centre diff is locked up.
Or an axle diff seized or locked-up, especially the front one

Classic symptom.

CharlesY

CharlesY said:

Sounds to me like centre diff is locked up.
Or an axle diff seized or locked-up, especially the front one

Classic symptom.

CharlesY

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would be worth slinging in the back. Axle diff locker for free.

As said previously Center diff not dis-engaging if the front is indeed not rubbing

Hello all

Here is the latest report...

I changed the rear prop for one I cleaned down and re-greased and knew was in very good order - quite an improvement on rear noise. Also, I used the removal of this to test the diff selection.

I removed the front prop with some effort - seemed to stick in place a bit. Again I tested the diff selection.

I can confirm that diff selection works and that the centre diff is not sticking and was on normal low range throughout this issue.

Driving with the front prop off made an amazing difference in feel of the vehicle - it freewheels very well down the hill outside my house and the noise was gone. No steering issues with front prop off either. The front flange on the transfer box looks tight with no spray pattern oil leaks around it.

So, it's either prop or front diff. The prop was stiff at the joint, although with a bit of my weight applied, it opened and closed ok and the splines look tight.

I checked the oil in the front diff - it's right up to the mark.

with the front prop off at the transfer end and still applied to the front diff I rotated it a little - the noise at the diff end does not sound good! It's a bit grindy.

So I think it's the front diff and that is transferring noise through my transmission and also causing a sort of 'handbrake left on' knocking as it forces the rear prop to work against the front one.

Any turning is forcing the front prop to work harder and it is finding difficulty with that. I am taking the front diff apart next week with an official Land Rover mechanic I know well and will let you know what I find. Shame after all the work I've done so far, but that's life with a Landy isn't it? I'm just grateful I've only done around 150 miles with the new gear and transfer boxes before fixing this problem, and that there is a forum like this to help me work out what is happening.

I'm waiting for the inevitable "bearings fooked in my front diff" post now.

It could be the CV joints fooked also. While the front prop is off jack the front wheels up and try spinning the wheels by hand while they are on full lock.

Stick with it James, an interesting thread this, nearly as good as the one on the BNP!

jai_landrover said:

Look for polish marks.

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They seem to get everywhere these days.