Starting Problems

Guys,

I have a couple of starting issues that I'd appreciate some advice on please;

Reggy is a 1991 ex MOD defender 110 packing a 19J 2.5 N/A diesel. The battery is good and holds a fine charge.

1. I was advised to "cook the glows" for about 15 seconds before starting but he still takes ages to fire up followed by a plume of smoke to rival Krakatoa! Once running all is fine. Is this normal?

Also

2. I believe I have a faulty starter relay because sometimes the starter motor just stops in mid thrash even with the key held in the start position.
Conversely, sometimes the starter motor just whirrs away merrily even with everything swithed off. At this point panic sets in and as I frantically search for a spanner to disconnect the battery, it stops by itself. Do I need a new relay/solenoid?

Reggy91 said:

Guys,

I have a couple of starting issues that I'd appreciate some advice on please;

Reggy is a 1991 ex MOD defender 110 packing a 19J 2.5 N/A diesel. The battery is good and holds a fine charge.

1. I was advised to "cook the glows" for about 15 seconds before starting but he still takes ages to fire up followed by a plume of smoke to rival Krakatoa! Once running all is fine. Is this normal?

Also

2. I believe I have a faulty starter relay because sometimes the starter motor just stops in mid thrash even with the key held in the start position.
Conversely, sometimes the starter motor just whirrs away merrily even with everything swithed off. At this point panic sets in and as I frantically search for a spanner to disconnect the battery, it stops by itself. Do I need a new relay/solenoid?

Click to expand...

Hello,

First of all, you either have a 2.5 N/A (12J) or a 2.5 TD (19J) - make sure you find out which one it is. If it has a turbo, it'll be a 19J, if it doesn't it'll be a 12J - my money is on it being a 12J (the army used these engines for years).

The start up that you have described is very normal. I used to give mine 30 seconds on the glow plugs (they don't start to glow until around 12 seconds), and then it was the usual few turns to half spring into life, followed by plumes of white smoke and then eventually it'd pick up and start to idle properly. These engines will not run smoothly until they are warm - they are indirect injection engines. In other words, they have a small snail shell like chamber in the head, where the fuel is injected. Before starting, the air in the pre combustion chamber is pre-heated (glow plugs), along with any diesel remnants in there. Then it is both sucked / dribbled' into the cylinder where it is compressed. This system is not efficient until the engine is warm so that the fuel is significantly warmer before it is drawn into the cylinder. The white smoke you see on startup is purely and simply down to the injection pump over fueling the engine so that it has enough fuel to get going. The best way to start the engine is with no throttle, the clutch fully pressed and then hold the glow plugs for 30 seconds. Turn the key and it should fire up. The pump has a cold start mechanism which only engages if the throttle cable is under zero tension, so check that it's slack at the pump when the pedal is right up.

As for the starter - it sounds like a wiring short somewhere

-Pos

Just out of interest, I never touch the clutch on mine. Is there a reason pressing the clutch down (apart from the fact that my hand break is ****ed, and I occasionally forget that I've left it in gear )

coz yu dont have to turn the gearbox and all its gears over then.

tombardier said:

Just out of interest, I never touch the clutch on mine. Is there a reason pressing the clutch down (apart from the fact that my hand break is ****ed, and I occasionally forget that I've left it in gear )

Click to expand...

every vehicle I've ever had I've done that, apart from autos - just saves the GB a bit

I've never seen the insides of a gearbox. I thought there'd just be a shaft with some cog on it that wasn;t connected to anything else in the gearbox when it was in neutral? 'scuse my ignorance

ere reggy, check the plugs actually get RED hot buy pulling em out and attaching a high current 12v supply across them

Anyway, regarding the starter relay, is it possible that the spring is a little bit knackered in it, or something's got in there? I don't know if it's a sealed unit, but you might be able to take it apart and see if the switch closes properly when the ignition is engaged. Might be worth a bit of wd40 as well. I've only had to mess with the starter relay on a transit, but it turned out that there was nothing wrong with it, 'twas the immobiliser..

If i give my plugs 20 seconds on a not so cold day, then mine starts up without all the coughing and spluttering. I can give it 30 seconds though in the current weather, and the coughing and spluttering is as bad as the 8 seconds i used to give it in summer. I just wait until it's cranking under it's own power, and rev it up for a good 3 seconds or so, then it's quite happy. You can see my thread on the same subject here

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f7/2-5na-rough-starting-cold-89084.html

tombardier said:

I've never seen the insides of a gearbox. I thought there'd just be a shaft with some cog on it that wasn;t connected to anything else in the gearbox when it was in neutral? 'scuse my ignorance

Click to expand...

There are CONSTANT MESH gearboxes.

ALL the gears and the layshaft, are being turned even in neutral.
The only bit that should not turn in neutral is the third motion shaft, the output shaft.

It's a lot of drag, and pressing the clutch down does make it easier.

CharlesY

Pos,

Good response - Many thanks for putting me straight on the 12J/19J issue ( I guess I'll pick it all up in time!). I will check out all the things that you mentioned.

Reggy

CharlesY

Nice one! - The clutch WILL! get depressed in future

Reggy

tombardier

Thanks for the reference - Most informative.

Reggy

Make sure your fuel filter is clean as there is a fuel boost in the injector pump that kicks in below a preset rpm to help it start and this needs a good flow of fuel. My 19J now starts much better (and goes more than 40mph) now it has a new filter in it.

You do need 20-30 seconds at least to get it hot enough to start. - Everytime i lend mine to people i'm always getting called to say the battery is flat after they have failed to heat it enough (especially now!) and just ran the battery flat turning it over!

jamescronin said:

Make sure your fuel filter is clean as there is a fuel boost in the injector pump that kicks in below a preset rpm to help it start and this needs a good flow of fuel. My 19J now starts much better (and goes more than 40mph) now it has a new filter in it.

You do need 20-30 seconds at least to get it hot enough to start. - Everytime i lend mine to people i'm always getting called to say the battery is flat after they have failed to heat it enough (especially now!) and just ran the battery flat turning it over!

Click to expand...

In this very cold weather, use the glow plugs LOTS if they are manually controlled. Best of all is a big button somwhere to switch them on, so you can maintain GLOW during starting and AFTER the engine has fired up.
This will drastically reduce the smoke.

For example, in cold weather a TD5 will keep the glowplugs heated long after the engine has fired up even though the glowplug dash light is out.

The 4 glowplugs draw a fair current between them, and this actually helps the battery by warming it it up inside just a little bit. COLD batteries produce less starting current than not-so-cold ones.

There's a bit more to glowplugs than first appears!

CharlesY

it will knock a battery for six if it has the slightest weakness tho.

The Mad Hat Man said:

it will knock a battery for six if it has the slightest weakness tho.

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Naaaahh.... the glow plugs draw about 8 - 10 amps each, say 40 amps between them at most, for 20 seconds. That is nothing taken from a battery with the amp-hours capacity needed to start a LandRover on a cold day

The starter in a diesel Landy will take 400 amps plus if it gets the chance.

Charles

I had the same problem on my military 110 non turbo.
Check/renew earths to battery and starter motor. This turned out to be the problem in my case (bad earth to starter) but only after buying a new battery and a new starter which weren't actually needed!