Somethings Not Right!?

This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.
I have to agree with Angus on this one, Fanny.:eek:

Well - sort of.....
Although the Rail is not critical in most K series engines, and which many treat as optional on Rover cars, it becomes much more important on the Freelander application. This is because the Freelander has a bigger problem with block stiffness due to the way the 4WD transmission is mounted on it. It is a must if you want to ward off a repeat failure.... even with the MLS gasket.

That does not negate the **** poor design and the likelyhood of cavitation and sequential HGF, but every bit helps :D
YouTube - Adam Sandler - Live on HBO - 1996 Ode To My Car

Edited for accuracy :p
 
God sake don't you'll make me cry! Support from you what the hell's the world coming to!!

The K has issues, it always will, but you can go along way in reducing them, nothing is prone to failure, nothing!!


I will support you when I think yu are correct and tell yu that yu are a pillock when yu behave like one.
You are, unfortunately mistaken with the K series engine - it does have inbuilt design flaws, primarily concerning the cooling system and its susceptability to cavitation. Tiz widely documented and you are a fool if you disbelieve it.
 
So after all this I'm thinking about buying a project car one "austin metropolitan" what ya think? You lot wanna follow that hahahahaha:doh:
 
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wANynTQmRws"]YouTube - Rockwell - Somebody's Watching Me (Studio Performance '83)[/nomedia]
 
Mad Hat....

Are you reading something else cos I cant remember saying that, I said you can help OK help...... Nothing works for ever! OK read me comment should have been failing haha.

I agree the therm shock issue is still a concern but steps can be taken to help reduce....
 
Why do you post songs, I take it's your thing, no wonder you've got 10k posts under your belt and a very big song list!!
 
Why do you post songs, I take it's your thing, no wonder you've got 10k posts under your belt and a very big song list!!

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tb-ucz_Fpg"]YouTube - Rover K-Series Engine Part One[/nomedia]
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os3b6hVOrFg&feature=related"]YouTube - Rover K-Series Engine Part Two[/nomedia]

I rest my case
 
Had you bothered to watch rover's own video it shows flexing on computer simulation
 
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPsn1yUxVXY&feature=related"]YouTube - Top Gear 1989 Rover 200 Series[/nomedia]
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frLDTQwUNK0&feature=related"]YouTube - Old Top Gear Rover 400 Tourer[/nomedia]

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t4z7N9R5Ew"]YouTube - Top gear:Land Rover Freelander 1[/nomedia]
 
Some more information for the K-series owners like myself, I've talked about this before but here is a quote from a design team.

Far more significant was the introduction of the revised oil rail and now available through Landrover as a retrofit.

This new casting is a stiffer design made in ANSI357 alloy - the same metal as F1 blocks and is as stiff a cast alloy as you can currently make. The purpose is to resist the bending forces the engine is subjected to in those warm up/down cycles. During all the elaborate stress analysis done on the engine in the last 5 years the original oil rail was found to collapse at the towers that hold the bolts and allow the coolant leakage that will eventually destroy the head. Consequently fitting the new rail is almost as important as fitting PRT.

However it is ESSENTIAL to fit it, if a MLS gasket is being used, because the new MLS gaskets achieve only 75% of the clamping of the old elastomer gaskets [the elastomer compresses more than the 5 steel core plates of the MLS] and consequently the MLS is much more prone to leak than the elastomer gasket without the new oil rail, particularly without a PRT fitted.


This backs up my understanding, and anyone who said you don't need it clearly talking crap.

And again no head should be re-fitted without a hardness test first!

I never fitted the new rail with the MLS back in July 2006. Even re-used the bolts as they were within tolerance

Ran for 3yrs circa 30k miles no issues with hgf.
The gasket weeps oil inter the 5 layers (I have attached pics on LZ) the 5 layers should have been bonded and not just crimped together by steel clasps. Also the surface shows signs of de-lamination around the outer edges of the block.

The head on my FL was removed a year ago (burnt valve) and I fitted an OEM gasket.

Being one of the first to fit one, I had high hopes for the MLS, it's not quite there yet.

just carry on with the rebuild and she'll be done soon enough.

did you do the liner seals? Too much info in this thread to trawl through.

Ps still don't believe you about the F :p
 
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4ZQHguIh80"]YouTube - War of the Worlds Theme Tune[/nomedia]
 
Mad Hat

"Replacing pistons when 17 does not mean you know what you are talking about or that you have an understanding of the mechanical complexities and poor design of the K series"

Your right it doesn't make me fully understand the mechanical complexities of the K but does your comments make you a guru?! People who look on here come looking for help and support on matters, just like me and just like you did once upon a time. The power of the internet is great but also a curse as mentioned time and time again everyone on here knows best, no doubt over the years you've been able to point a number of people in the right direction but since you actually dont have any actual experiance with these engines I guess that puts me above you doesn't it....

Try doing it my friend instead of reading about it on the internet then perhaps we can agree on something.


Have to say Angus, that I'm interested in what you're doing & hope it works out but your argueing with the wrong guy re Mad Hat Man. He is one of the genuine guys who always tries to help out & often is the only guy who will reply to newbies asking the same old thing. He's also right to question issues like the liner seals & you will find his advice valuable in future. Some of the others aren't so helpful & fully warrant your "wrath" as you'll find out if you stay here long enough which I hope you do.

Keep plugging away & let us know how you get on.
 
I went out last night cos I have a life and I come back to this madness!!

chromiumuk you are the calm in my life!! haha

OK OK, lets get go over some key points and give you a understanding of my brain, I'd looked at the issue of HGF and at the upgraded parts on todays market, including cheaper market products.

(When things go wrong and if honest you'd look around and see what you can get at the best price but this isn't the best practice as experience would show - if HGF are part of life for the K-Series then you've got to do your best to reduce the possibility)

Having looked over many a horror story regarding "ANOTHER HGF" the ongoing theme I've noticed was not replacing all the key upgraded parts (Most peeps don't state if they obtained high end market parts - again cheap parts are a possible factor of repetative failure)

With the above in mind I began to look at the strongest market parts and information from racing team such as Lotus, Nascar etc and looked at what they've done over the years to help the high stress levels these guys put the engines under, again high upgraded parts are used.

This seems to be a way forward, replacing "all" the key parts! Thermostat, Bolts, Gasket, dowels, Oil rail (Oil Ladder) Over the years HGF has been looked at and the one thing all teams agreed on including Rover/Land Rover is to replace all the parts!

Saying that what works for one..... :doh:

The next big issue to address is Alloy! Now I'm no engineer of the "motoring world" but accepting that Alloy if placed under enough stress goes soft plays a big part in the life of the K-series. The understanding is if it's soft it's junk/it cant be fixed only replaced.

So to cap, Alloy gets way to hot and becomes scrap. This is when you will hear stories about Liners dropping/Heads cracking etc.

So my first job after a HGF was to remove the head and take it for testing. They tested the head first, stripped it down for inspection, reassembled, skimmed and re-tested. As the head's Alloy is still strong it can go back on the vehicle.

So next job was to look at the "Bottom End" now this has caused some debate, whatever practice you choose either "Revue" or "clamping" of the liners the bottom end is generally overlooked but shouldn't be. Again if it's gone soft it's scrap this therory also stands for the Oil Rail as it can collapse and loosens the required tension from the bolts causing HGF.

OK so just for debate sake we all agree that the Liners haven't dropped and the seals are good, the Bottom end and Head is still strong and we've settled on replacing the Gasket, Bolts, Rail and Dowels. I don't need to change the thermostat as my model had it fitted as standard (54Reg) but have checked it over to make sure it still opporates (placed in a pan of boiling water and checked by eye that it opens)

(FACT - THE NEW MLS GASKET CREATES MORE FLEX THAN THE ORIGINAL GASKET THEREFORE IT MUST BE USED IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE UPGRADED OIL RAIL & ONLY BE USED IF THE HEAD HAS BEEN SKIMMED)

This is one of the main areas overlooked have a stressed that enough already?!

As mine has done 48K it was due to fail given it had the old dowels/gasket and oil rail, but since it's apart I've also chosen to replace the timing belt and wheel, makes sense to do all the jobs at once!!

The next issue is to cover "Electric Pumps" designed for hot climates the claims are it will reduce air pockets and help with the heating up and cooling down process of the engine especially the Alloy (remember we've talked about the Alloy going soft) now I've got no experience with these some say it's overkill some say it's required. Lotus and Nascar teams don't go as far as fitting these units only that you must upgrade to the new thermostat which is Pressure and Temperature controlled (PRT was fitted as standard on later models). My thoughts are I will look into this more.

So I hope this clears things up a little, job's left to do on mine are little, the head is back on so just to line up timing belt, final tighten exhaust manifold, fit air filter housing and flush entire system.

Final major recomendation is to check the head bolts 5 months/5 thousand miles later regardless of issues and set periods there after. This is a small price to pay in the ongoing battle of HGF it's all about the tension baby!

So you can make your own minds up about HGF this is mine, I will however purchase the Water Expansion tank with a fitted water sensor as mentioned by "the one who's name shall not be typed" as I think it was a very good suggestion and a simple job to wire in.
I thank you!!
 
Last edited:
Northern Irelander

Dude could it be said that perhaps had you carried out all the recommended upgrades then your gasket wouldn't have spring a leak?? I've also read a few yank sites about the MLS and they say to Cooper spray them first..... Hummm Food for thought.

PS the power of the F is real, overall I'm still pounds down on her, spent thousands and paid 8k for her.... She was more than a project car, a true love, and a very rare Private Plate!!!!
 
Northern Irelander

Dude could it be said that perhaps had you carried out all the recommended upgrades then your gasket wouldn't have spring a leak?? I've also read a few yank sites about the MLS and they say to Cooper spray them first..... Hummm Food for thought.

PS the power of the F is real, overall I'm still pounds down on her, spent thousands and paid 8k for her.... She was more than a project car, a true love, and a very rare Private Plate!!!!


I have rare number plates on both my cars, so rare in fact that I believe the registrations on both my cars are unique!!!
 
Back
Top