Somethings Not Right!?

Is the MLS gasket the best option, read a few posts about problems after fitting???

Anguslives! said:

My Dad called over and he thought perhaps an air lock so put more and more water in..... Water eventually came up dip stick......

Uncle called over, retired Bus Mech. He took off oil cap and told my Dad to start engine. Milky Oil erupted up. (Not Gooood) engine tried to start but failed.

So next day I stripped it down ...... liners look OK and still move up and down correctly.

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Your enthusiasm is admirable, but my concern here is that you are trying to rebuilt an engine which, even when rebuilt, is susceptable to ongoing sequential HGF. It is a poor design that is widely and repeatedly documented.
The advice that you have received from your family is dubious, to say the least - I mean who tries starting an engine after noticing that "Water eventually came up dip stick." It is not surprising, I would go so far as to say that it was 150% certain that "Milky Oil erupted up". You now, instead of having a suspect liner problem, now have certain liner problems on all liners and an engine that is contaminated throught the entire lubrication system with a corrosive emulsion.
I would suggest that, if you wish to continue with a 1.8, then you buy a known good one, with warranty. Fit the Remote thermostat, an EWP, the modified coolant expansion bottle and start praying.
The other option would be to fit a 2 Litre "T" series engine, which is considerably more reliable.
Get yourself a free copy of the Rave and read as much as you can before embarking on this project. It is possible, but it will be expensive, with no guarantees that it wont suffer again in a short time.

Cheers for the advice, what you said makes sense and changing engine to a T is probably a good call. Will look into it but hadn't looked at it as an option. Not to worried about time car is off road as have a second and at the mo I'm biking to work!! So is this T motor a simple fix in? Will look into it later but at work at present. Update on work, head is off being pressure tested today and skim just to make good. Going to upgrade theromstat and check over pipes just in case, has anyone tried the relocated position of the thermostat this is also an option. With the correct OE parts and MLS gaskets etc HCF should be a thing of the past? haha! All parts pressure washed down for now and will be flushed once reassembled, will change "All belts" since it's stripped.

The pistons still move correctly! poss prob with Liners? micro crack in head? Thermostat packed in? worsed case I'd replace bottom end and rebuild with original parts.

Nobody want's this much work if they can get away with it but like I said I bought the K as my own current experience of engine was A OK.... But I'm not afraid to get my hands mucky as long as my nails are OK!!

Anguslives! said:

Yep and Sorry! I'm a petrol boy, did look at diesels but thought if trouble starts it's normally cheaper to fix a petrol issue..... Could be wrong about that now haha.

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Ooops, you really didnt do your homework did you??

another reason for not turning the crank when the head is off, is the fact allthe main bearing caps, although they are in place, they are not torque tight and damage can occur to the main bearing shells, you might as well completely strip the engine, but first try to get a reliable measurement for each liner height to see if they come within tolerances, then you can decide whether it can be rebuilt or not. liner height will be the most important factor of the engine having a chance, and was it overheated when driven(cooked to be exact?)

What cos you got the TD4, any idea how much a head is for that! Changing parts etc is common in Freelanders and since you've clearly got a Gold one.... well enough said. But for the record my head if replaced is around £200+ yours is £800+ and it goes on and on like that. Have you ever owned a K series engine?? Or just listened to stories?

Freelance, No I would say stopped just in time, head is being tested today and should have back tomorrow, then I'll know if it just the head or small end. Pistons/Liners etc should be OK nothing much done to them as yet, hanging until head info is known. Sudden loss of water could be gasket/head/hose/therm.......... but until the heads back who knows. I'll update it again tomorrow!!!! K-series has some bad rap, but a lot of sports teams still use it as parts can be changed/weight advantage etc some interesting facts on them and some upgrades making the engine much better..... From what I've noticed perhaps some garages use second rate parts etc and don't correctly install head again giving more pain for the owner. It's my first Freelander but second K engine, VVC which was a stonker....

For the record, I sold my 98 reg MGF British Racing Green in Mint condition with all service history and 62K on clock, private reg, hardtop etc 5 months ago for £5400.00 to a collector from Scotland. And that's a K series so perhaps it's how the garages look after them along with the owners of course!

Anguslives! said:

It's my first Freelander but second K engine,

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So in your own experience of K series, 50% are ****e op2:

Anguslives! said:

Sudden loss of water could be gasket/head/hose/therm.......... but until the heads back who knows.....

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Anguslives! said:

then car started to run different whilst parked up, noticed white smoke from exhaust and turned it off. Popped bonnet and noticed water was gone? Let it cool down a bit and put water back in, started it up and it ran smooth for 20 secs, then started to judder again engine management light came on and turned off the engine.
So next day I stripped it down and inspected head cant see a crack, but going to have it tested, Gasket looks fine,

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So you think it could be hose or thermostat - with no external signs of a leak and the engine running rough?

and now you have moved all the liners and broken the seals, and still think that there "may be a problem"........

Good luck - I have a feeling you will need it

Haha when you put it like that!!!

Well the update, the head isn't cracked but has warpped slightly it passed the tests and has been skimmed and will be collected tonight.

Most likely down to gasket fail (single unit sort)

Changing all the filters and belts since it's all off but have a question about the head bolts. Are they all the same? If you look on EBAY you can get them for all sorts of prices, some come with the Muti-Gasket sets. Are these OK? I'm getting the MLS gasket set but want to check about the bolts.

Local dealers can supply the bolts from £20.00 for a full set to £67.00 (rover sticker)

If anyone could advise it would be helpful.

Also I'm going to pick up as advised on Landyzone a PRRT thermostat, my question is do this need alternative pipe size?

Mr Mad Hatter, I haven't claimed to be all mighty, I put things out for feedback (real feedback) not crap. I'm new to LR and who better to ask than people who drive these beasts day in day out. Just for the record and to call in my own stupidity I said Liners when it should have been piston heads, but in all fairness a great man like yourself should have known this given the details about cranking the wheel......? Perhaps? But if you can advise and give me some pointers on my new questions it would be appreciated.

Anguslives! said:

Haha when you put it like that!!!

Well the update, the head isn't cracked but has warped slightly it passed the tests and has been skimmed and will be collected tonight.

Most likely down to gasket fail (single unit sort)

Changing all the filters and belts since it's all off
Also I'm going to pick up as advised on Landyzone a PRRT thermostat, my question is do this need alternative pipe size?

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1) so it has overheated.
2) how do reconcile that with...

Anguslives! said:

Gasket looks fine, and from what I can tell liners look OK and still move up and down correctly.

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3) All the belts? Timing belts as well?
4) No - follow the instructions.

Dude you still love me!!

Timing belt is to be replaced its done 48K-ish so getting close to being changed anyhow and should I sell on it should help peace of mind etc making it more attractive for the buyer. Other belts will be inspected and if look worn I'll change since I've got my Barclaycard out!

Head, well I'm shocked no micro-crack but as it needed skimming it supports head failure instead of bottom end.... Gasket looks fine but is the single unit type (old) and these MLS seem to be the way to go. Gasket is now living in the bin!

Thermo, around £8.00 to £16.00 from local shops, but one thinks it needs other size pipes for the job, but if you say not then I'm fine with that.

Any feelings on the head bolts then????

My concern is that you say....

Anguslives! said:

I put things out for feedback (real feedback) not crap. I'm new to LR and who better to ask than people who drive these beasts day in day out.

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yet the majority of the advice is not to bother - it isnt worth it - and yet you ignore that advice and consider that anyone who doesnt agree with you is being obstructive and unhelpful.

you also say....

Anguslives! said:

Just for the record and to call in my own stupidity I said Liners when it should have been piston heads.

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If you have moved the crankshaft, it is an almost certainty that, if not damaged previously, the liner seals are now damaged. You also seem to be ignoring the fact that this is no easy job. It is not the sort of thing that an inexperienced person would be advised to attempt, particularly one that is unsure of the difference between liners and piston heads (????). As I said previously good luck, because you are, i believe, biting off more than you can chew. Especially if you get advice from close family who, if you are to believed, have, by their advice, changed a prospective single liner problem to a complete engine strip and rebuild.

OK thanks for the "but why not bother" I'm not going to write the car off it's a sound and stunning motor to look at, fun to drive and good in the weather. Instead I'd want to get the engine working again, If it needs a replacemnt bottom end I would buy one, If it need stripping right down then that's what must be done, money isn't the issue, nor is time. Yes it's a big job but not my first, and admit I'm not a mech-man but someone who's willing to learn and try and I've been that way all my life. Why knock people down instead provide help and support after all that's what forums are for! As for the "obstructive and unhelpful" comment people on here can say don't bother but if I'm willing to fail (in your eyes) why not let me, just provide help if asked, I'm undertaking this with the help and advice from my father and uncle who do car restorations and both state the Liners are OK. Yes I called them the wrong name as I'm not a total rev head I work in IT but the liners were checked before and after cranking nothing found. They didn't move and my uncle also stated that had they moved it's not the end of the world just a little more work!! I do hope people using Landyzone read these posts and judge what to do with their own Freelanders, me I would fix them everytime!

Did you restore your 40s???? Or buy them like that? If you did restore them bet you had to learn and had issues along the way..... That's all I'm doing.

For anyone wanting to know my cost's.

Stripped of the head Sunday afternoon, Monday took away for local testing, passed, no cracks, therefore no new head required, did require skimming £60.00. Head is being collected today.

Multi-Gasket (MLS) set which includes head engine bolts £60.00.

Oil Filter £4

So for £124.oo the car should be back on the road.

But I'm also going to change the air and pollen filters £6 & £8 respec.
Timing belt £16.00
Thermostat PRRT £17.00
New Plugs and Oil (not priced as yet) Currently high grade plugs are being used.
So for around £70 to £80 engine all serviced which isn't bad.

I've has some good advice on Landyzone with regards to using the MLS Gaskets (Multi Layered Steel) which comes with a second part called a shim these provide a better seal reducing head failure.

On top of this another good bit of advice is changing the thermostat for a newer Rover unit. It's called a PRRT (Pressure Relief Remote Thermostat) this works with the pressure and not just the temp as the original units do. Much better for short trips!

If you go along the route I have it's also recomended that no anti-freeze is added for the first 1000 miles. The Head bolts should be checked and the engine flushed. Replace Oil filter and add Anti-freeze to water.

A further check on the Head bolts can be done a few months down, just to ensure all is right.

Anguslives! said:

but the liners were checked before and after cranking nothing found.

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That's ok then. Everything is hunky dory

Do you agree with that then? apart from burning the K series and all who bother with it!

I watched this from the 1st post and what a great debate , it was fantastic to see some great posts on the forum, some dedication and enthusiam you have there Anguslives .

I can fully understand you wanting to do this work, regardless of whether some say different , it all comes down to perspective. And a great follow up for those wanting to tackle something like this themselves.

A few years ago I would have been doing exactly the same as you are now and loved every minute of the learning experience, now though I must confess I am too lazy

Also must congratulate those that helped despite it being a long drawn out saga ... The Mad Hat Man certainly knows his stuff alright !

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