Snorkel Air Filter

gazdav said:

Is that for cleaning the gutters

Click to expand...

Bet it's great for hoovering up dead leaves in autumn???

Currently, under my bonnet, I have this (all done by previous owner):



A few questions...

1. If I buy this: Forced Induction Cold Air Feed pipe Kit Cone Ram Filter + 3inch Duct Flexipipe | eBay

...is that everything i'll need? I already have a drill and drill bits.

2. Did the mount it comes with do the job perfectly?

3. Why is this filter called "Forced induction"?

4. Is the cone filter inside it foam or cotton gauze?

5. Why is it called a "Ram filter"?

6. The snorkel I have on there already is a Safari snorkel with the "ram" air inlet on the top (see below). This will presumably force more air in the faster I go. Is that a problem?

7. And finally... is the "ram" inlet on top of the snorkel (see below) still OK to use with this setup when it's raining/snowing/etc... ? or will it just fill the air filter with water??



Sorry for all the questions, but as usual, i'm clueless, but want it done right!

Thanks if you can answer everything!

fishsponge said:

Currently, under my bonnet, I have this (all done by previous owner):

A few questions...

1. If I buy this: Forced Induction Cold Air Feed pipe Kit Cone Ram Filter + 3inch Duct Flexipipe | eBay

...is that everything i'll need? I already have a drill and drill bits.

2. Did the mount it comes with do the job perfectly?

3. Why is this filter called "Forced induction"?

4. Is the cone filter inside it foam or cotton gauze?

5. Why is it called a "Ram filter"?

6. The snorkel I have on there already is a Safari snorkel with the "ram" air inlet on the top (see below). This will presumably force more air in the faster I go. Is that a problem?

7. And finally... is the "ram" inlet on top of the snorkel (see below) still OK to use with this setup when it's raining/snowing/etc... ? or will it just fill the air filter with water??

Sorry for all the questions, but as usual, i'm clueless, but want it done right!

Thanks if you can answer everything!

Click to expand...

7. What most folks do is turn the top so it faces backwards, this reduces the possible of rain or snow being driven down the inlet tract.

do what I suggested in a previous post (use some pipe to make your own) and link to the hole in the inner wing , or , in the mean time , at least turn that angled pipe around so the air filter faces the hole so that it gets more of the cold air from the snorkel

forcing air in is not a problem but a benefit , but you can turn the top around to stop water , snow , leaves , crows etc flying in

the filter you have fitted is a cloth one , the one on e bay looks like it is the same , or close

forced induction is , in this case , a bit of a spin phrase , along with ram - while they do in some ways describe whats going on its more a marketting thing.....

reckons I , anyway - others know more....much , much more

Thanks for the replies!

So...

fishsponge said:

1. If I buy this: Forced Induction Cold Air Feed pipe Kit Cone Ram Filter + 3inch Duct Flexipipe | eBay

...is that everything i'll need? I already have a drill and drill bits.

Click to expand...

Sill no idea... can you answer, StuRox?

fishsponge said:

2. Did the mount it comes with do the job perfectly?

Click to expand...

StuRox?

fishsponge said:

3. Why is this filter called "Forced induction"?

Click to expand...

The answer is "mainly for marketing reasons"!

fishsponge said:

4. Is the cone filter inside it foam or cotton gauze?

Click to expand...

The answer is "cotton gauze or something similar", so I'm happy.

fishsponge said:

5. Why is it called a "Ram filter"?

Click to expand...

The answer is "mainly for marketing reasons"!

fishsponge said:

6. The snorkel I have on there already is a Safari snorkel with the "ram" air inlet on the top (see below). This will presumably force more air in the faster I go. Is that a problem?

Click to expand...

The answer is "No, it's a benefit!". However, surely turning the filter around to face backwards will cause a negative pressure and try to suck air *out* of the engine?!?

fishsponge said:

7. And finally... is the "ram" inlet on top of the snorkel (see below) still OK to use with this setup when it's raining/snowing/etc... ? or will it just fill the air filter with water??

Click to expand...

The answer is that it will fill the air filter with rain, leaves, and other rubbish, so it ought to face backwards.

What is the point in having a filter of this type then?!? Is there any benefit for daily use?

Facing forward it will generate good air pressure, but let all kinds of crap in. Facing backward it will generate bad (negative) air pressure but keep all kinds of crap out. Should it be replaced?!?

Go to scrap yard get the air box that is sapose to be there.
ditch the cone filter get a Panel filter i use itg personaly.
what you have there is a snorkel that has been fitted as said above turn the top roundto stop rain and snow.
get the most out of the snorkel fit the origanal air box and plum it to the opening in the wing with some sort of hose or pipe.
The cone that is on it is a cheep aftermarket coton gauze oil impregnated halfords pice of crap that is not a ram filter.
The top of the snorkel is an air ram but it offers no performance increase as it is a turbo diesel you have
Alternatively you can do what was done in post 12

Well , I did add the codicil "reckons I" ...... Im no physics professor , I was just trying to be helpful mate .

gazdav said:

Go to scrap yard get the air box that is sapose to be there.
ditch the cone filter get a Panel filter i use itg personaly.
what you have there is a snorkel that has been fitted as said above turn the top roundto stop rain and snow.
get the most out of the snorkel fit the origanal air box and plum it to the opening in the wing with some sort of hose or pipe.
The cone that is on it is a cheep aftermarket coton gauze oil impregnated halfords pice of crap that is not a ram filter.
The top of the snorkel is an air ram but it offers no performance increase as it is a turbo diesel you have
Alternatively you can do what was done in post 12

Click to expand...

When you say "ditch the cone filter & get a panel filter", is that not the same thing as the filter that goes in the standard airbox?

and if i turn the snorkel top around, will it not generate negative pressure as I drive faster and make it harder for the engine to suck air in?

Regarding plumbing the fitted snorkel to the original airbox, I've wanted to do this all along, but I cannot find anyone local who supplies flexihose of suitable size. Plus, once the original airbox is in position, there is no room to get a hose from the snorkel to the airbox, as the two are so close to each other, hence the need for some custom solution or the original Safari kit (which is not available on its own).

You say "The cone that is on it is a cheep aftermarket coton gauze oil impregnated halfords pice of crap that is not a ram filter.". I agree that it's a cheap piece of c***, but what do you mean by "it's not a ram filter"? What exactly *is* a ram filter and how does it differ?

Finally, I want to do exactly what is done in post 12, hence my questions above...

shocker said:

Well , I did add the codicil "reckons I" ...... Im no physics professor , I was just trying to be helpful mate .

Click to expand...

yeah, I know - you were very helpful just trying to understand a bit more

Links on a similar thread to e bay vendor , MrSilicone (I think) , who supplies the hoses etc .

fishsponge said:

The answer is "No, it's a benefit!". However, surely turning the filter around to face backwards will cause a negative pressure and try to suck air *out* of the engine?!?



The answer is that it will fill the air filter with rain, leaves, and other rubbish, so it ought to face backwards.

What is the point in having a filter of this type then?!? Is there any benefit for daily use?

Facing forward it will generate good air pressure, but let all kinds of crap in. Facing backward it will generate bad (negative) air pressure but keep all kinds of crap out. Should it be replaced?!?

Click to expand...

This type of snorkel is all about protecting the engine from ingesting water whilst wading. It has nothing whatsoever to do with any form of performance benefit.

Think about it this way: imagine the vehicle is travelling forwards at 60mph and the snorkel top is also facing forwards, then you are likely to get some form of forced injection, right? Wrong!

A TDi 300 engine is sucking in 2500cc x rpm of air every minute; That equates to 2500 x 2500rpm = 6250 cubic metres of air every minute. That snorkel top with it's grill and size of pipe will not permit that level of airflow, never mind any surplus air due to the aforementioned ram effect. The setup is already restricting airflow.


Turn the top to face backwards or you will drown your engine - then the last thing you'll be worrying about is "ram air" as you are trawling Ebay for a replacement engine. Water-locked engines just break, end of story. For a snorkel to to work properly it needs to be sealed so no wading can get in, this means any rain water going in the top has nowhere to go but straight into your engine, with catastrophic effects.

Please, please don't ask any more questions Spongebob, before you have given yourself the chance to think this through.

Yes it is the same as the standerd just less resistence

A ram filters do not exist what you have is an air ram with a filter attached. This is a marketing ploy.

Ramair filters are a brand of performance filters like itg, k&n and piper x

conical filters are used because there is more suffice area so the engine can suck in more air.
The air ram at speed pushes more air into the filter then into the engine this is more applicable on naturally aspirated engines. Or high performance cars where the speed assists getting more air in.
What we have is a forced induction where we have a turbo that sucks in and compresses the air.
I have the same snorkel and it is turned so from experience it around dose not affect the discos performance. there just not fast enough to make the difarance to the turbo.

OK, so after some pondering (and yes, I really have been thinking - i'm not just rushing into more questions here) i should definitely turn the snorkel head around to face backwards. This one is simple.

Connecting my snorkel will create an airflow restriction regardless, so therefore it's best to leave my cone filter in place unless I plan to actually go wading! Is this still true despite it sucking in hot air rather than cold air the whole time? Or does none of this really matter and i'm being over-paranoid?

thebiglad - i've been thinking about connecting this snorkel since I bought the vehicle 1.5 years ago and never come up with a solution. Been thinking of 200Tdi airboxes, P38 airboxes, refitting a 300Tdi airbox somewhere else to give room for a hose, surrounding an existing cone filter in some custom container, and various other combinations. Just not come up with a solution, despite talking to people about it face to face!

300 box with side entry as per Safari preferred fit would do it easy enough since you have the snorkel there already . Or search the breakers yard for a narrower panel box filter - volvo 700/900 series maybe even 1/200s would be a good starting place

fishsponge said:

thebiglad - i've been thinking about connecting this snorkel since I bought the vehicle 1.5 years ago and never come up with a solution. Been thinking of 200Tdi airboxes, P38 airboxes, refitting a 300Tdi airbox somewhere else to give room for a hose, surrounding an existing cone filter in some custom container, and various other combinations. Just not come up with a solution, despite talking to people about it face to face!

Click to expand...

To be honest mate, I reckon we don't have the same meaning for the wording "thinking"

Your definition appears to be one of on-going reflection about a subject, whereas mine is much more about actively considering the different options of a given subject, analysing their implications to bring me to a considered conclusion - decision time.

It used to be called common sense, but nowadays simple concepts such as this don't seem to carry any weight and more complex solutions are sought.

For example: to me it is common sense that you don't leave your car windows open whilst driving in the rain - common sense tells me that water will enter the car - and so it is with a forward facing snorkel, water will enter and drain down to the filter, be sucked through the filter and into the engine. Now you don't need a PHd in Engineering to know that's not good, do you.

So you don't want a forward facing snorkel.


We've had similar discussions previous ly and you still don't seem to get it; remember when I parady'd you with:

1. I'm thinking of going to the toilet, should I stand or sit down?

2. If it's a public toilet, should I carry disinfectant so I can clean the seat?

3. What's everybody using in the way of toilet rolls?

4. I've heard of two and three-ply, which is better?

Seriously mate, your questions are not about learning, because you seem to learn little or nothing that can be applied to other, alternative things you come across in motoring life.


All I would ask you to do is think more, genuinely sit down and work through things, rather than this knee-jerk reaction to ask others. You'll find it will help you in every aspect of your life.

Re this:

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f8/what-do-my-blown-up-disco-185877.html

fishsponge said:

Thanks for the replies!

So...



Sill no idea... can you answer, StuRox?



StuRox?


The answer is "mainly for marketing reasons"!



The answer is "cotton gauze or something similar", so I'm happy.



The answer is "mainly for marketing reasons"!



The answer is "No, it's a benefit!". However, surely turning the filter around to face backwards will cause a negative pressure and try to suck air *out* of the engine?!?



The answer is that it will fill the air filter with rain, leaves, and other rubbish, so it ought to face backwards.

What is the point in having a filter of this type then?!? Is there any benefit for daily use?

Facing forward it will generate good air pressure, but let all kinds of crap in. Facing backward it will generate bad (negative) air pressure but keep all kinds of crap out. Should it be replaced?!?

Click to expand...

That is the same type of filter I bought, and that should just attach onto the safari snorkel in the wing, although I think its a little bit smaller diameter - maybe 2.5" and the tubing is 3" so you may need a reducer in the piping.

I looked about for am air box I could modify to fit in, but kept coming up blank, so that's why I went for this type. The bracket it comes with works well and it all stays were it should be.

It works well too, as been offroading with the Green Hornet and others at the weekend over the salisbury plains, and went through some water deeper than I was comfortable with, given my snorkel is not fitted, but it worked brilliantly, guess the fact I now suck air in from the inner wing and not the open bonnet area helped - hopefully my video will be posted on soon

You can see that its still where I put it in one piece here...



You get to hear a louder whistle from the Turbo with this type of filter, but I am hoping once attacked to the snorkel this will then quieten down, as I think I can also hear the air being sucked in from the wing...but its not that loud to be deafening if you know what I mean - you can easily live with it - esp since you are running a cone filter now

I have lost track to what questions has been answered and if you are still needing any with not being on over the weekend, but if there is anything else I can help with, let me know

Thanks to the Green Hornet, here's a taster of what we got up....

Salisbury Plain April 2012 - Part 7 - YouTube

I am about 1 min in flying the flag for standard Discos (with the expection of BFG AT's )

with regards to the ram effect forcing rain in, ive had this exact problem as the snorkel i got (fair bit cheaper) cant be turned around (hacksaw and drainpipe will fix this shortly) as i was going down the motorway with snow and rain i decided to check it and the airbox was full of water..luckily the engine hadnt got any of the water in it and i promptly blocked the snorkel off and swapped the filter so it was breathing as normal. so i would always have it facing backwards personally.

or switch to a mushroom type as I cannot see them letting in water like the safari types, but wait to be corrected if I am wrong

MOD seem to get by with the mushroom type....though I stand to be corrected by greater minds (not difficult)

EDIT : link here to defender MOD snorkel ....

https://secure.pablanchard.co.uk/spares.asp

just for comparisons sake