Smoke Smoke Smoke

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pos

pos

Well-Known Member
Posts
3,685
Location
West Yorkshire
Hello,

I'm having constant problems with my 200TDi and i could do with a bit of advise or ideas to help me along. The symptoms are poor performance (no acceleration & no high end power) and excessive white smoke. I have performed the following checks:

- Air filter clean
- CAF pipe good
- Turbo pipes good
- Intercooler good (although slightly oily)
- Turbo boosting
- Waste gate working properly
- Boost diaphragm pipe in tact
- Boost diaphragm maintaining pressure (when blown down pipe)
- Boost diaphragm not split
- Fuel lift pump working well
- Fuel filter replaced 3 weeks ago

I have also made the following observations:

- Black / gray smoke at startup (starts first turn)
- White smoke whilst revving
- Blue smoke for first split second of revving
- Engine shaking more than usual at tick over and at revs
- Oil seeping from injector port in head

It looks to me as if the engine is getting a good supply of air under boost, so I'm assuming the problem is fuel related. If I put my foot to the floor, it makes very little difference to the acceleration, where as before it would scream and charge away. I'm a bit stuck for ideas though now :confused:

Any ideas?
-Pos
 
MrJC said:
White smoke is normally either unburnt diesel or water.... take you oil cap off and see if it is creamy inside the cap. Could be cylinder head gasket or crack.
Click to expand...

It aint water. I've been keeping a very close eye on my coolant level for a while and it's using nothing. I had the rocker cover off earlier to check my valve timing and there's no mayo under there, just oil. If it's unburnt diesel what's likely to be causing that? There's no piston or bore wear (I had the head off about 1.5 months ago to replace the head gasket and there's no crank case pressure / blowby either).

I really don't know what to do next. I suppose it COULD be water in the fuel. That would explain both poor performance and gray smoke (diesel and water mix) Time to drain the tank I guess!

-Pos
 
If there was a huge amount of water in the tank then there should be water in the bottom of the fuel filter - there is a drain plug on the bottom. Put a clear glass under to collect the contents, and see if there are two layers.

Other thought that springs to mind is that the timing of the fuel pump has sliped somehow - has anybody been fidling with the screws on it.

Other obvious test is to compression test the cylinders with a compression guage +/- have a look at the head gasket (you know what the means) - but if your not loosing coolant/oil then thats reduces the chances of this- but could still be passing gasses between two cylinders.

May be time to find a local bosch diesel specalist, and get they to have a look?
 
jamescronin said:
If there was a huge amount of water in the tank then there should be water in the bottom of the fuel filter - there is a drain plug on the bottom. Put a clear glass under to collect the contents, and see if there are two layers.

Other thought that springs to mind is that the timing of the fuel pump has sliped somehow - has anybody been fidling with the screws on it.

Other obvious test is to compression test the cylinders with a compression guage +/- have a look at the head gasket (you know what the means) - but if your not loosing coolant/oil then thats reduces the chances of this- but could still be passing gasses between two cylinders.

May be time to find a local bosch diesel specalist, and get they to have a look?
Click to expand...

I had the drain plug off the bottom of the filter t'other day. there was a tiny amount of water, nothing much - but it does indicate that there is water in my fuel tank which may be contaminating the fuel.

I haven't touched the fuel pump timing so I can't really see how it would have slipped, unless the tensioner had gone or the belt has stripped a tooth etc. but I think that this would show up in other ways too. I will check it none the less.

The head gasket has only just been replaced with the head skimmed so I very much doubt that it'll have gone between two cylinders already. I wont rule it out mind because things like that do happen :doh:

I'm still certain that it's a ****y injector that is dribbling rather than spraying but I don't have a pop tester to check them out. I'll look up a local Bosh specialist who can test them for me.

I'll have a gander at the other topics now. I dunno what it is with the search. Whenever I put something in, it comes up with topics that I've created and nothing else!

Cheers
-Pos
 
Shifty1962 said:
My money is on a dodgy injector or two.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm thinking, BUT, I will try to rule out a few other things first. I've noticed that since re-fitting my injectors earlier today (after cleaning them and fitting new copper washers) the injector pipes are leaking at the nut where they tighten onto the injector. I'll put new olives and nuts on them to ensure that there's a good seal there. I also noticed about half an hour ago that the lift pump isn't as good as it should be and it would appear that the non return valve isn't working because it wouldn't keep any fuel in the line on the filter side of the unit - it just trickled back to the tank. I'll swap that and I might also replace the fuel feed and return lines to and from the fuel tank. I know that they can be a great way of getting air into the system without having fuel necessarily oosing out.

Just a bloody nightmare trying to find the problem. The injector can be pop tested too - don't know how much that will cost mind :rolleyes:

-Pos
 
I had the same prob's as you on my 200 tdi it turned out to be the fuel line split thats the line from the tank to the f/filter. Replaced it with a good quality diesel oil aprooved pipe rather than the plastic/teflon type mind. Job done.
 
ANGELO DAMATO said:
I had the same prob's as you on my 200 tdi it turned out to be the fuel line split thats the line from the tank to the f/filter. Replaced it with a good quality diesel oil aprooved pipe rather than the plastic/teflon type mind. Job done.
Click to expand...

I'll check the full length of pipe tomorrow. What material is the fuel line you replaced it with made from?
 
I thought you where getting some injectors off a member here mate ?? that fallen through ? ..
You can sort of test your injectors without a pop tester ( bearing in mind all you'll be able to see is the spray pattern and not the pressure they open at ..... ) just couple up an injector to your pipes and spin the engine over and watch the spray pattern .

This is VERY messy tho !!! , and Dont FFS stick your fingers anywhere near the injector nozzle when its working !!!!!!!!! and the obviouse dont breath the atomised diesel .

have you tryed injector cleaner btw ?



.
 
Have you checked your turbo oil feed? Could be the early days of turbo oil seal failure....obviously if that is the case that would explain the loss in power and the smoke on startup?
 
sypher said:
I thought you where getting some injectors off a member here mate ?? that fallen through ? ..
You can sort of test your injectors without a pop tester ( bearing in mind all you'll be able to see is the spray pattern and not the pressure they open at ..... ) just couple up an injector to your pipes and spin the engine over and watch the spray pattern .

This is VERY messy tho !!! , and Dont FFS stick your fingers anywhere near the injector nozzle when its working !!!!!!!!! and the obviouse dont breath the atomised diesel .

have you tryed injector cleaner btw ?



.
Click to expand...

Life2Short sent me a set of f our injectors in the post (thank you sir :D) but they're 300TDi injectors, not 200 TDi injectors. I've cleaned them up though and I'm going to see if i can make them fit. the only differences I have noticed are a slightly longer nozzle, a different injector pipe thread and three indentations around the body. If they wont fit, I'm going to send them back to him. It never entered my mind to just plumb up an injector to the injector pipe, what a marvelous and simple idea for checking the spray pattern. I suppose though, if the injector produces a fine looking spray pattern on turning the engine over, it's working fine and opening at the right pressures? I could use a length of wire down the injector hole to see when the piston is at TDC, obviously the injector should be spraying a little before that. Brilliant idea Sypher :) I know what I'm doing tomorrow. Oh and yes I've tried injector cleaner. I'll let you know what the problem is when I find it.

-Pos
 
alibream said:
Have you checked your turbo oil feed? Could be the early days of turbo oil seal failure....obviously if that is the case that would explain the loss in power and the smoke on startup?
Click to expand...

The turbo seems to be being fed plenty of oil. It's definitely not loosing any oil into the intercooler either and there's only a minimal amount of play in the spindle which is usual when the engine is off and there's no oil pressure to create the wet bearing. It's boosting nicely too. The black smoke on startup is usual. I think the blue smoke which I have started seeing when I deck the pedal has been caused by something I've done. The intercooler was a bit gunked up (oil from cyclone breather), so I thought that spraying a load of air intake cleaner into the turbo inlet whilst the engine was running might help clean the intercooler out and then let the engine burn the oil away. Now though ofcourse there's oil smeared all over the inlet etc. I've cleaned that off this evening which has fixed the blue smoke problem.

-Pos
 
I've just had a read of this thread http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f7/why-so-slow-defender-200tdi-90177-7.html

The very last post, where the OP explains how he fixes his problem by freeing up a seized pin in his injection pump - is that the pin that's attached to the boost diaphragm? How would I go about checking so see whether or not it has seized? I can rotate the boost diaphragm freely, is there anything else I can check to make sure it's free?

-Pos
 
Hi pos sorry to take so long to reply. :eek:The pipe line i used was a duble wall petrol pipe externaly re enforced I don't think you'll have any problem finding some if it turns out to be the prob. By the way the pin OP mentions must be the one that you can adjust the full throtle mix ie on the back of the F I P where the injector pipes fit. Hope you'll have some joy and get it fixed.
 
ANGELO DAMATO said:
Hi pos sorry to take so long to reply. :eek:The pipe line i used was a duble wall petrol pipe externaly re enforced I don't think you'll have any problem finding some if it turns out to be the prob. By the way the pin OP mentions must be the one that you can adjust the full throtle mix ie on the back of the F I P where the injector pipes fit. Hope you'll have some joy and get it fixed.
Click to expand...

Cheers, I'm swapping the pick up pipe in the tank tomorrow along with the lien that goes from there to my lift pump because it's still letting air into the system. I'll try and free the pin up and then all being well, it'll fly again.
 
ANGELO DAMATO said:
http//www.dodge ram org/tech/dsl/more-power/Power-ve htm Try this it might help
Click to expand...

Thanks, I've read that a few times :) It's obviously still drawing air in which can now only be the pipe from the tank to the lift pump. All the others have been replaced and with new copper washers. I'll see how it goes after that, it should make a huge difference. I'll tweak the pump once it's back to usual just to get it running absolutely spot on.
 
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