*sigh* It gets worse...

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On or around Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:40:13 +0100, "Paul - xxx"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>They did this with one of my cars a few years ago .. used a break-back
>torque wrench, it broke correctly, and they then turned it another 1/4 turn
>.. Why ?


did you ask 'em?

I do my disco ones up to 100 lb-ft, and they've never come loose yet. In
fact, since my torque wrench is old, they're probably less than that.
Really must stop leaving it set for high torques...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
"Mother" wrote:
> Simon Barr wrote:
>
>> Roadside engine replacment!!!
>> Did you just happen to be carrying a spare?

>
> Sort of... Old Ford Anglia with knackered engine. Advert in the
> local paper for a rusty old Anglia so we went to have a look - it was
> a dog but the engine wasn't a smoker - so we changed it there and
> then. Paid 25 quid for the whole car, after we'd swapped the engine
> we towed the 'new' one to the breakers and got 20 quid.
>
> Police turned up just as we were finishing off. Against the "Town
> Police Clauses Act of 1847" apparently. The poor sods couldn't
> believe we'd actually managed to do it and waved us merrily on our
> way.


I swapped a 1600 crossflow into a lightened Anglia body outside
the house. If you found the right Ford parts (Corsair clutch
housing I think) it just bolted on but the exhaust was a fabricate
and weld job. This was in the middle of Brighton.

> This was a long time ago.


Ditto. Early 70s. I was brave then.
These days I put the HSE into the shop for brake pads I'm ashamed to say.

nigelH


 
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:59:55 +0100, "Nigel Hewitt"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>This was in the middle of Brighton.


Did mine 7 miles away - scary small world!

 

"Mother" <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 22 Jul 2004 08:57:08 GMT, Simon Barr <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Roadside engine replacment!!!
> >
> >Did you just happen to be carrying a spare?

>
> Sort of... Old Ford Anglia with knackered engine. Advert in the
> local paper for a rusty old Anglia so we went to have a look - it was
> a dog but the engine wasn't a smoker - so we changed it there and
> then. Paid 25 quid for the whole car, after we'd swapped the engine
> we towed the 'new' one to the breakers and got 20 quid.
>
> Police turned up just as we were finishing off. Against the "Town
> Police Clauses Act of 1847" apparently. The poor sods couldn't
> believe we'd actually managed to do it and waved us merrily on our
> way.
>
> This was a long time ago.
>
> There's a story about some chaps changing a 101 gearbox in a motorway
> service station some years ago which, I believe, makes our engine
> change similar to replacing a flat tyre!
>
>

I helped change a 38T truck gearbox in a little cul-de-sac near Buxton once!

Truck broke down (load bang, bits of gearbox strewn down the road!) so we
pushed it into this very posh looking cul-de-sac, left it there, and came
back the next morning with another gearbox. The locals couldn't have been
friendlier, normally when you so much as park a truck in a street like that,
you get moaned at, the sight of two extremely oily fitters crawling all over
the back of this thing was greeted with friendly hello's all day, I think
they must have felt sorry for us!


 
In message <[email protected]>, Judith
<[email protected]> writes
>On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:14:31 +0100, Steve Taylor
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Do they do house calls ? I can't GET the bastards off mine

>
>I bought a set of tyres at Billing and, as directed on the invoice,
>checked the wheel nuts after 30 minutes. I'll be beggared if I can
>move any of them in any direction. That's the problem with compressed
>air tools...... have any of these tyre fitters ever heard of the
>correct torque rating for the wheel studs on a Disco alloy rim? Ha!
>Don't be daft.
>
>Judith

My local independent is excellent an all thing Land Rover - EXCEPT that
they too will insist on tightening the nuts on my alloys so bloody tight
I can barely shift them. Set to correct toque they are quite easily
removed.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:52:10 +0100, hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

>My local independent is excellent an all thing Land Rover - EXCEPT that
>they too will insist on tightening the nuts on my alloys so bloody tight
>I can barely shift them. Set to correct toque they are quite easily
>removed.


Hm? A few people have now mentioned that "professionals" over-tighten
wheel nuts. Do you reckon I'd get funny looks if I went round to kwik
fit (for example) and asked them to correctly loosen/re-tighten my
wheel nuts? There's no way I can shift the nuts myself at the moment
but, as you say, they're removable when correctly torqued.

All I really need is a gorilla with a compressed air wheel-nut-remover
to get them off. I can put them back on (properly) by myself!

Judith

 
On or around Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:15:27 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother}
@"@101fc.net> enlightened us thusly:

>There's a story about some chaps changing a 101 gearbox in a motorway
>service station some years ago which, I believe, makes our engine
>change similar to replacing a flat tyre!


I've done a cylinder head gasket in a layby once.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"It is a characteristic of the human mind to hate the man one has injured"
Tacitus (c.55 - c.117) Agricola, 45
 
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:15:27 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net>
wrote:

>There's a story about some chaps changing a 101 gearbox in a motorway
>service station some years ago which, I believe, makes our engine
>change similar to replacing a flat tyre!


My Mum replaced her Series III radiator in a field in Derbyshire. She
hadn't realised it was all furred up until she tried to tow the
caravan on holiday on the hottest day of the year.

Good job she was near Paddocks.

Judith
 
In <[email protected]> Judith wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:52:10 +0100, hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>
>>My local independent is excellent an all thing Land Rover - EXCEPT
>>that they too will insist on tightening the nuts on my alloys so
>>bloody tight I can barely shift them. Set to correct toque they are
>>quite easily removed.

>
> Hm? A few people have now mentioned that "professionals" over-tighten
> wheel nuts. Do you reckon I'd get funny looks if I went round to kwik
> fit (for example) and asked them to correctly loosen/re-tighten my
> wheel nuts? There's no way I can shift the nuts myself at the moment
> but, as you say, they're removable when correctly torqued.
>
> All I really need is a gorilla with a compressed air wheel-nut-remover
> to get them off. I can put them back on (properly) by myself!


I've done this before now at my local National Tyres place. They did all
4 wheels in a couple of minutes - I had snapped 2 half inch extensions
and split a socket before giving up.

They didn't charge me for the job either :)

cheers

Dave W.
http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/
 
Austin Shackles typed:
> On or around Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:40:13 +0100, "Paul - xxx"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>> They did this with one of my cars a few years ago .. used a break-back
>> torque wrench, it broke correctly, and they then turned it another 1/4
>> turn .. Why ?

>
> did you ask 'em?


Nope .. but I will next time.

> I do my disco ones up to 100 lb-ft, and they've never come loose yet. In
> fact, since my torque wrench is old, they're probably less than that.
> Really must stop leaving it set for high torques...


Heheheh, yeah, tired springs don't just affect old Landies .. ;)

At a certain level, something like above 75 lb-ft, a nut the size of a LR
wheel nut shouldn't come undone, in normal tightening circumstances, anyway.
[1] The frictional forces are enough to overcome any 'un-doing' forces from
use. The reason they specify above 100lb-ft is to make sure that all
seating faces are as flat and 'together' as they can be, but also so that an
owner may also change the wheel material (Steels for Alloy and vice-versa
for example) and still use the same torque number to tighten them ... and to
cover their arses if a problem _does_ arise. The safety factor is a _big_
thing in these days of rampant litigation.

(I know this 'cos in my previous work (I'm now a school caretaker) I was a
Torque Control Engineer working for Georges Renault and helped design, build
and program the production line tooling that assembles the newer models
brake/hub/driveshaft/axle/suspension assemblies .. so did a ****-load of
testing on wheel and hub torque combinations for LR)


--
Paul ...

(8(|) ... Homer Rocks


 
On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:29:44 +0100, "Paul - xxx"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>At a certain level, something like above 75 lb-ft, a nut the size of a LR
>wheel nut shouldn't come undone,


I think the quality of the thread - on the stud and nut can make a big
difference. Overtightening can damage (sometimes strip) the thread.
Tim Hobbs can also make a few observations about nuts coming loose!

I always used to put a little dab of Tipex where the nut met the rim.
This was I could easily tell if the nut had moved. Don't bother with
mine on Grumble now as constant checking demonstrated that they tend
to stay exactly where I'd tightened them!

I also got a Makita 24V cordless impact drive a few years ago -
without which my Quarterly 'taking the sodding wheels off to brush the
brake drums out" exercise would be a right PITA.


--
Some Land Roveresque (101 biased), links available
from: http://links.solis.co.uk/Geek/X4_Land_Rover/
I also have a little Land Rover site biased toward
my beloved 101 "Grumble", at: http://www.101fc.net


Reading this in 'alt.fan.landrover'? Did you know
there's a group FAQ: http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info
 
Larry wrote:

> I had a tyre replaced at National tyres, they asked me what the torque
> setting was and actually used a wrench to finish the job off :)
>

I tend to use the same place for having tyres done, and the ONLY time they
use the correct torque setting is when it's on a commercial vehicle, as
VI/VOSA could come down on them heavier than for a private vehicle :(
 
Mother" <"@ {mother} @ typed:
> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:29:44 +0100, "Paul - xxx"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> At a certain level, something like above 75 lb-ft, a nut the size of a LR
>> wheel nut shouldn't come undone,

>
> I think the quality of the thread - on the stud and nut can make a big
> difference. Overtightening can damage (sometimes strip) the thread.
> Tim Hobbs can also make a few observations about nuts coming loose!


Ho yuss .. hence why I said 'shouldn't' .. ;)

> I always used to put a little dab of Tipex where the nut met the rim.


Yeah, something I've done on most vehicles I have for years, 'specially the
bikes .. I once had a swingarm bolt come loose during a trial. No great
problem at the slow speeds, but my thoughts were related to me blasting
about on a H1 500 Kawasaki too .. Though there are many who'd say that you
couldn't tell if a H1's swinging arm was loose or not anyway .. ;)

--
Paul ...

(8(|) ... Homer Rocks


 
Button bashing in practice for another round of Daley Thompson's
Decathlon, Judith <[email protected]> left Shakespeare
to the monkeys by typing...
>On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:14:31 +0100, Steve Taylor
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Do they do house calls ? I can't GET the bastards off mine

>
>I bought a set of tyres at Billing and, as directed on the invoice,
>checked the wheel nuts after 30 minutes. I'll be beggared if I can
>move any of them in any direction. That's the problem with compressed
>air tools...... have any of these tyre fitters ever heard of the
>correct torque rating for the wheel studs on a Disco alloy rim? Ha!
>Don't be daft.
>
>Judith

Aren't garages legally required to set the correct torque for wheelnuts?
Some companies do rated bars for air guns (Snap-On for one) for correct
torque. When I worked in a garage we used a torque wrench (well, I did).
The constant battering and overtightening can do strange things to alloy
wheels (work-hardening, stress fractures etc) which can eventually lead
to a saucer-size wheel centre and the rest of the wheel gaily sailing
off into the blue yonder (and they usually shear when loaded up -
cornering - and it's usually on the outside of whatever corner you're
attempting - autoengage brown-trouser mode!....)

My favourite air gun story (Not guilty - I was watching!)was a mid-70's
911turbo with a puncture came in on a Sat. Afternoon. Wheel off, fix
puncture, gun first nut on. Nut contacts wheel and keeps spinning. Same
with nuts 2 & 3. Thinking swiftly before more damage was done, said
'fitter' ('big-hammer-equipped-butcher' is perhaps more accurate) ran
over and asked why this might be. I suggested that alloy wheelnuts might
be torqued to a slightly lesser amount than his usual delicate 'max'
setting and that he may have stripped the threads. I also pointed out
that the FPDSH vehicle wouldn't be moving for a while and that these
wheelnuts aren't considered important enough to be 'stock items' by some
Porsche dealers, but that they could probably be ordered first thing on
Monday to arrive sometime within the next week or so and that the owner
was well within his rights to bill the garage for genuine replacement
wheelnuts (ouch), tow to (and replacement by) Porsche dealer (OUCH) and
the hire of an equivalent (same) vehicle for the duration (OUCH!!!).

Oh, and don't use copaslip on wheelnuts - it allows artificially high
torque to be achieved leading to overtightening of wheel nuts - Ford's
Motorsport dept (don't know the official name - RS/AVO whatever they
called it) head during the building of one of the Lotus Cortina's
explained this in a Craptical Plastics magazine about 15 years ago.
Thick oils can lead to hydraulic splitting (on capped nuts), but WD40
(Waste of space for anything IMO - try PlusGas in the same contexts as
WD to see the difference) or similar (3-in-1 etc) is ok.
--
O O :-o O O
| I so did it again |
O :-o O
Weallhatebillgates would be found at hotmail
 
On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 13:08:47 +0100, weallhatebillgates
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Aren't garages legally required to set the correct torque for wheelnuts?
>Some companies do rated bars for air guns (Snap-On for one) for correct
>torque.


I don't know. I wish I had thought to ask the fitters at the time.

I'm going to check the nuts sometime this week. It'll do no harm to
take the Disco down to a tyre garage and ask them to check. (Somebody
on this ng has already said that National checked his free of charge).

Judith
 
On or around Sun, 25 Jul 2004 13:08:47 +0100, weallhatebillgates
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>but WD40
>(Waste of space for anything IMO - try PlusGas in the same contexts as
>WD to see the difference) or similar (3-in-1 etc) is ok.


WD40 is quite good at dispersing water and leaving a film of oily stuff on
components to slow down rusting, which AIUI is what it was designed for.

not much good as a penetrating oil or rust-remover or etc etc.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent.
I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929)
 
Paul - xxx wrote:

> Yeah, something I've done on most vehicles I have for years,
> 'specially the bikes .. I once had a swingarm bolt come loose during
> a trial. No great problem at the slow speeds, but my thoughts were
> related to me blasting about on a H1 500 Kawasaki too .. Though there
> are many who'd say that you couldn't tell if a H1's swinging arm was
> loose or not anyway .. ;)


Did the H1 *have* a swingarm? I thought they used a couple of bamboo sticks
;-)

What a bike - totally single-minded. Never owned one, but always hankered.
Nearest I got was a Power Valve 350, which went nearly as fast but also went
round corners, up to a point. At the time I lived near Brigg in Lincs,
where all the roads follow the field boundaries, so you have a series of
200m straights linked by 90 degree muddy corners. Sold it before it killed
me - the V50 Guzzi was a much more usable tool on those roads. Ah,
memories...

--
--
Rich

Land Rovers
Boat
Dog
Wife
Kids - in that order


 
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 23:34:24 +0100, Judith
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I have a pole which was part of my garden swing when I was a little
>girl.


You should have kept the whole swing assembly. They make an ideal
impromptu engine hoist (so I'm told) - oh for a digital camera in
those old days of roadside engine replacements! :)


--
Some Land Roveresque (101 biased), links available
from: http://links.solis.co.uk/Geek/X4_Land_Rover/
I also have a little Land Rover site biased toward
my beloved 101 "Grumble", at: http://www.101fc.net


Reading this in 'alt.fan.landrover'? Did you know
there's a group FAQ: http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info
 
On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:17:06 +0100, in
<[email protected]>, Elwyn York
<[email protected]> wrote:

>, and the ONLY time they
>use the correct torque setting is when it's on a commercial vehicle, as
>VI/VOSA could come down on them heavier than for a private vehicle :(


except for the fact the paperwork will say re-torque the nuts after
50km - giving them a get out if they come loose !
--
denis

"I teleported home one night, With Ron and Sid and Meg,
Ron stole Meggie's heart away, And I got Sidney's leg. "
 
On or around Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:23:45 +0100, Denis F
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:17:06 +0100, in
><[email protected]>, Elwyn York
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>, and the ONLY time they
>>use the correct torque setting is when it's on a commercial vehicle, as
>>VI/VOSA could come down on them heavier than for a private vehicle :(

>
>except for the fact the paperwork will say re-torque the nuts after
>50km - giving them a get out if they come loose !


had occasion to remove the wheels from the big trailer yesterday, bloody
military gorilla must've tightened 'em. They're only normal car-sized
studs, too.

My disco did a fair job of towing 'tother disco back from Bala, too, albeit
not very fast - but I was towing a bit over 3 tons, altogether, and the
road's a bit hilly in places.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
If all be true that I do think, There are five reasons we should drink;
Good wine, a friend, or being dry, Or lest we should be by and by;
Or any other reason why. - Henry Aldrich (1647 - 1710)
 
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