Shocker setup help please

hi all.

First I want to say sorry for not been able to find the answers I want in the search bar if they are there

Rite then. I'm wanting to run +5 shocks with some 2" lift springs that I already have. I've got some terrafirma rear shock mounts that are the ones for these shocks and I have a rear dislocation and retainer set up and some rear arms. I also have some after market front turrets that are standard length for now, and also the flat bar I need to extend them.

So really my questions are:
- will the standard a frame ball joint be ok with this set up?
- apart from castor correction arms will I need anything else for the front, like a dislocation and retainer set up?
- will I even benefit from +5 shocks on the front or will the arms or panard rod lock out before I get full use of the shocks?
- if I'm extending my own turrets, is +2" actually the best length for 2" springs and +5 shocks or do people just buy them cos they are near enough?
- will a +4" brake line set give enough extra length front and back?
- have I missed anything else???

The shocks I want to use are the terrafirma adjustable ones, so what has anyone heard or experienced with these...are they any good???

Any advise, experiences or even pics of this sort of set up in action would be very gratefully recieved. Basically if anyone would like to run through their setup with me, please feel free

Many thanks in advance

Towsey

Does anyone run +5 shockers?

Towsey

Can I ask "why do you need a 2"inch lift and +5 shocks?"
I'm not a fan of lifting a Defender or Disco. I have heard it causes problems on the prop shaft joins etc. Road holding is compromised, and on a recent trip across Morocco a P38 with a 2" lift did not fair any better than the rest of the vehicles in the group. All that happen was they got stuck 2" inches deeper. They said if they were doing it again they wouldn't bother. They also ran with a set of new Terrafirma shocks and one broke.
I'm a firm believer in keeping things as standard as possible. After all that's what they were designed for.

Haven't we had discussions already on this sort of thing?

Sorry but all the gear and no idea seems to sum this up tbh.

Essentially, if you can't answer the questions you posted yourself, then you probably shouldn't be fitting this stuff. Understand what the parts do and why.... the rest will then be easy.

I run +5" shocks on the rear and +2" front shocks, with +2" springs all round. Trailing arms are Adrenaline which gives the rear end massive articulation, especially with the spring held at the top and re-locator on the axle. With a locking diff it's now very rare I get stopped, my main obstacle on the vehicle is now my 235 85 16 tyres in some of the deeper ruts on P&P sites or some of the tracks we do in North Yorkshire.

Front has +2" shocks which I've found compliment the longer reach rears well enough and don't need anywhere near as many mods.

If I were competing then it'd be different, I'd go softer springs and maybe longer shocks all round with the extra mods at both ends to accommodate whichever comps I were doing.

When driving, especially laning, it now feels well balanced and doesn't fare too badly on road ..

Not knocking your setup. But you seriously do not need any of that for green laning. And if you are finding tramlines too deep for 235/85R16. Then don't drive those lanes. As evidently the lane has had too much traffic and needs time to recover.

Cheers for replies

Mikescuba- it's an all round vehicle that's for work and play which includes farm tracks that get in alsorts of states and other rough spots round North Yorkshire. I too believe in keeping things as simple as possible, which is wot I want to do, get wot I need for the vehicle to work for me and nothing more. I also like the idea of keeping vehicle geometry as close to standard as possible but sometimes standard doesn't give enough clearance, but I have warned people away from pointless massive lifts that look 'cool' many times.

Paul d- thanks for the info. Do you only run +2's on the front because +5's would need the other things sorting to see any benefit? I have some 4xforce rear arms which will give the articulation, and also the retainer at the top and cone at the bottom. Are you running arb or truetrac or something else? I know exactly where your coming from with the lanes around here, and I know it's not hooliganism and sometimes it can be a short distance between other lanes. Have you got any pics of your vehicle in action???

300- yes I think we have been here before. Your a long way off with your assumption, it's not a case of no idea and not understanding how things work, it's asking for people's experiences and things they might have found work or don't work while I have the chance to modify things myself to correct any known problems, and also make sure that when I get the vehicle stripped on the ramp that I have all the bits I need to build it back up how I want it. Tbh it sounds like you don't even need a Land Rover and that something like a Subaru Forester would serve you well enough and I don't know why you come on here just to basically abuse me and not even answer any of my questions...anyone would think i have wronged you in another life!

Don't be so dramatic...

Basically I'm not wanting to hand everything I've read and learnt to you on a silver platter. If you want to know some of these things, it will require you to go read up, learn and maybe try a few things out. Rather than a single thread on a forum expecting people to give you all the answers.

I'm not against helping you. But a large part of that help is trying to get you to help yourself.

But essentially all of the things you want to do will be a compromise elsewhere.

I'm not saying they are bad things to do, but some might see them that way and there are certainly alternative ways of doing things.

e.g.

Any lift will change the angle of the props and maybe cause bind.
It will also raise the centre of gravity.
And may not actually help with the things you think it might.
It will also alter the steering geometry.

Caster corrected arms make the prop angles even worse and can cause other issues. So they are a 6 of one and half dozen of the other. Which is why not everyone runs them.

Suspension travel is about up travel as well as down. There may be reasons for wanting more of one than the other, but you need to understand what affect your parts selection will have.

Longer shocks are fine in principle, but you need to figure out what the limiting factors are for axle travel and then match the shocks to what movement you have available. If a shock is too long it'll have a long shock body, which if the top mount is in the stock location will likely result in limited up travel.

So an important thing here is to know the difference between more suspension travel and simply moving the ratio of down/up travel.

Extreme suspension setups will generally require wide angle yoke props. So make sure you consider this.

Also a lifted extreme travel rig is unlikely to be the nicest on the road. So consider how much road use vs off use you'll really be doing.

Moderate suspension and maybe a traction adder might prove to be a much more successful and nicer setup overall.


And at the end of the day, if you aren't sure about component selection and design, why not speak to people who actually sell this kind of thing? There are no shortage of people selling some very cool bits of kit, who are generally going to be in a better position to advise you what components will work well together.

If you are wanting extreme, then I quite like the design of some of these bits:

https://www.facebook.com/RacParts/

300bhp/ton said:

Not knocking your setup. But you seriously do not need any of that for green laning. And if you are finding tramlines too deep for 235/85R16. Then don't drive those lanes. As evidently the lane has had too much traffic and needs time to recover.

Click to expand...

I never said you did need it, and if you read my post you'd see I specifically mentioned P&P sites and 'tracks' .. that's not green laning, though a lot of my time is green laning, I'm setup for the 'worst' (best?) situation.

I run 2's on the front 'cos they were the cheapest 'upgrade' that works. The rears are setup with the proper mounts so an extra 2" higher at the top, giving +3" droop, but with the Adrenaline trailing the droop is only limited by the A-frame and prop. It was all done to get the maximum movement from the minimum spend, and not all was bought, I made the spring holders and adapted the relocators and many other small parts.

I run an ARB, an old broken one which we machined parts for and cobbled together. All my off-roading and laning is done on a budget ..

Hardly any pics of it in action, I'm usually the leader and don't bother!

But here's a hill in North Yorks. I was the first and didn't bother with a spotter ...



This is the same hill with a basically standard Defender on the same run ..

Looks like a lot of fun
Yeah sorry, my comment was more aimed at the op than yourself.

I don't know what their vehicle looks like, but assuming it's the on in their avatar, then it looks a little too sedate for requiring an extreme suspension setup.

Paul- cheers for that. Is that the far end of Rutland rig out past bransdale? it looks familiar but can't place it.

300- I don't expect anything to be handed to me it was ment to be a sort of simple check list to make sure I had the things I asked about covered. It's not really the rear I'm concerned about. I have never used +5 shocks on the front before with standard arms, panhard and lines etc, but I have used a complete set up enough, and I thought this was a friendly site where people would rather see others succeed instead of fail by wasting time and money "trying a few things out" when they know they are not going to work. Prop bind and phasing are dealt with and COG is why it's getting the lift it needs to help with brake over and departure but no more, and we honestly don't need to go far to find problems with these with wot we do and where we go, and steering will be sorted accordingly. I wouldn't really consider +5 shocks extreme really.

So has anyone had the terrafirma adjustable shocks?

Cheers

Towsey

This was more extreme

From your op you say you have some flat bar to extend them? Are you meaning fabricate your own shock tower?

As for you list and spot checking. Tbh I probably wouldn't do any/most of the things you've listed.

At the front I would relocate the front shock so it isn't sitting in the tower, as the shock can foul on the inner part of the tower (see the link I posted earlier). I would then run slotted radius arm bushes and as long and soft a spring that I could find that would give minimal lift. After trial and error/testing I might add dislocation cones if the spring falls out and doesn't reseat. But I'd probably not know until trying. As for the shock, I'd probably have a measure up and see what length I'd need for the amount of travel and the mounting points. I quite like Rough Country as a budget/affordable brand. Or maybe some Bilsteins (import from USA) or even some Fox shocks. Afraid I don't know anything about the ones you are asking about. Although I'm sure they are fine, but they probably wouldn't be on my immediate list to look at.

I'd also probably stick with stock radius arms too, as I wouldn't be trying to lift it too much. If it didn't drive well, then I'd maybe look at options, although ultimately the issue is at the hub, not the arms.

This setup would keep it all pretty much stock LR in design. If you want more then I'd probably look at a 4 link setup of some kind.


At the rear I'd probably run rose jointed trailing arms (chassis end). And again as long and soft springs as I could find. I'd move the upper shock mount to accommodate a longer shock.

My preference would be to attempt to retain the springs as far as possible. Dislocating systems will allow the axle to drop further and on an RTI ramp are very impressive. But I think off road they offer less in the way of advantages and come with a number of negatives.

The A frame bush is more about alignment than total movement. So stock should be fine. Plenty of alternatives on the market however and are all pretty cheap.

To aid approach and departure angles I'd run different bumpers and a fuel tank guard. I'd also chop the arches to fit bigger tyres on.

Or if feeling radical I'd remove the body and build a 100" Series One body.

Don't know where the writing got to there ^^^

Those are the towers, standard length there but I have the bar in stock to lengthen them. That was why I asked if +2" was the best option or if just near enough.

Also there are some terrafirma rear top mounts and my retainer (chassis end) and dislocation setup (axle end)

And those are my arms which are the ones from the red disco above and use truck track rod ends instead of rose joints so they still give good articulation but don't wear and start rattling after minimal use.

They are all to be blasted and pained along with some other bits

The stock arms are staying to start with and see how it goes, and the springs are +2" light duty so will probably settle at less than that and the idea was for them to be soft then if I needed to tweak it then use the adjusters on those shockers to get something back, and be able to change from on road to off road sort of thing.

Vehicles that have been done have had varying amounts of bits and work from as standard as possible, thru +2" springs and shocks all the way to 4 link rear and 5 link front set ups that bolt on direct, and starting from scratch and measuring and making everything to fit as I went along to end up with a custom set up. That works best of all but this disco was ment to be an easy to do, somewhere in the middle general purpose bus. I was hoping to buy a few bits and use a few second hand bits and bolt it all on and have it all work together, I was really just wanting to check if I'd covered most of it. And if it's not enough just stick a truetrac in the back.

Unfortunately tank guards don't give any more clearence although they are worth having, then there's the humps and bumps that discos struggle with due to length.

Towsey

Looking good. Mine, although mainly used laning and off-roading is still a compromise. I carry a shed-load of extras and tools and camping gear and often drive a few hundred miles to the start of lanes etc .. Mine was done on a minute budget, with most things, bumper, rock/tree sliders all made or modified by me, as well as the dislocation bits and slightly different mounting points for shocks. Very similar basic kit though.

My video wasn't Rudland Rigg, but a much more rugged, High Lane, near Osmotherly, so not far away! Rudland we did in a stock Disco quite easily .. I posted the two videos to show the differences in how smooth mine took the drops and bumps, with longer travel, than a nearly stock Defender.

Cheers. Do i about have the sort of setup I'm wanting covered then, like I said before, I haven't done a +5 setup before.

Mine will be carrying tools and camping gear also, but mainly to kirton where it gets taken out and set up for the weekend which is only a few times a year, it will not be carrying much on a day to day basis.

There's 2 of us in our group that want to start going places like you talk about, weekend long laning sort of thing, but it's a struggle getting the rest of us to do it, well, we never have yet. I have wanted to do strata Florida for years from when my vitara was on the road (I think she might be my pay and play bus now tho cos discos are big and struggle with certain types of terrain in places like that as I'm sure you know. After using vitaras, defenders and discos it's easy to see the attraction off defenders...for those situations anyway. Horses for courses and all that)

I put a lot of money (in my eyes) into the disco itself so I'm trying to save by buying as few new parts as possible so I'm just trying to get a reasonable set up out of wots basically lying around.

Yeah we've been up there before but years ago, one of the lads that was with us nearly rolled his disco while we were out...his missus was NOT amused haha

Towsey