series 2, TD5 engine rattle

Hello,
My td5 has got an annoying rattle at about 1200rpm with no load. Sounds a bit like injector noise from an old diesel. The weird thing is that sometimes it's ok and runs very sweet, the engine has stacks of power, tickover is quiet and high speed is quiet, no knocks or taps. Just at 1200 rpm in between over run and pulling I get this clatter/rattle/vibration, and it's starting to bug me.
I thought, maybe a sticking tappet!

Any ideas?

Regards & Thanks
RichardG

Could be oil in the injector loom. I had same problem. Check the RED plug that goes into the ECU where the jack is next to battery. If it's full of oil it could be the problem.
The preasure in the engine pushes the oil through between the copper and insulation and it eventually migrates to the red plug causing bad contacts.

Give it a good clean with wd40 and if it rectifies you know it's a good chance it's that. Best to replace. You can get the loom from fleebay for around £35. Easy to fit. Takes around half an hour or so. If I can do it anhyone can

Dons x

Hello Dons,
Thanks for the quick reply, I failed to mention that my Disco is a late 2002 model and I seem to think that Landrover had sorted the oil in the loom problem out by then. But yes still worth a check. Would oil in the loom give me those symtoms, the engine doesn't misfire at all in fact it runs really well. Some days it's fine and other days I have this strange noise and like I said it only does it at about 1200 RPM between overun and pulling.

Regards
RichardG

tin kind of rattle. down pipe.

Nope, not a tin kind of rattle, more of a injector type of rattle.

Regards & Thanks
RichardG

injector clearances?

Yes, I had thought about that after reading other owners noise problems.
Worth checking, I doubt if they have ever been checked or adjusted since it was new.

Thanks again
RichardG

hi, I had a similar problem and eventually tracked it down to the injectors...
I assume the noise is the typical diesel clatter / knock....? you may find that one of the injectors is worn or maybe needs adjusting. Correct adjustment really quietens them down a lot...

here is the link..
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f8/ju...-engine-boy-does-clatter-when-cold-99678.html

hope this helps..

John

Hello John,
Thanks for your input. I actually read your linked thread prior to putting this thread on. And yes I think it could be injector tappets that want adjusting. But there are a couple things that's puzzling me regarding the noise. The noise/rattle is not consistant, meaning some days, no noise at all. And it doesn't matter if the engine is hot or cold. I would have thought that if it was tappets it would do it all the time. The engine is brilliant, it's quiet at tickover and quiet, smooth and powerful all the way up, just at 1200 rpm between overun and pulling I occasionally get this what sounds like injector noise, similar to the early 200tdi.

I will check injector clearances when the nice weather comes
Regards & Thanks
RichardG

Hi, Since I have run the car for a week or so a bit of the "clatter" re-appeared (at about the same revs and conditions as yours) but it is MUCH more noticeable when the engine is cold. A bit of accurate re-adjustment quietens things down. I found that I had to nip up the adjuster quite tight and back off one turn - no more....in fact a tiny little bit less (5 degrees or so) seems to work fine. When the engine is warm and or under load it is quiet and runs well so I guess that as the engine warms it takes up the clearance in the adjusters and alters the stroke of the injector pumps (not sure about this).

I did note that "new" adjuster bolts are supposed to be used - I guess they may be subject to quite high loads and hence my need for re-adjustment - not really sure... I used the old ones.

I have also made sure that I use good quality fuel or add the redex stuff - it really does run noticeably quieter on the expensive diesel and returns about 8 percent more mpg which offsets the additional costs.

It is such a shame these cars are so badly built and have so many design faults - I have had many 4 wd's (farmer) and this is by far the worst in terms of reliability but by far the best in terms of drive-ability and i think you need to be an "enthusiast " to own one and put up with all the problems they throw at you... Having said that I am beginning to love the damn thing - it is the only vehicle in which I keep a toolkit and a few spares! I have not done that since I owned a MGB GT years ago... another unreliable poorly built but enjoyable car... such is life!

ps mine is not 6 years old and I have rust where the top of the windscreen meets the roof - unbelievable!

Good luck with yours but unless you enjoy working on it I would get rid.

John

Hi John,
Thanks for all your info regarding your injectors.
I have to disagree with your comments on build quality and reliability. My car is 8 years old in September I have had it for 4 years, I've only ever had one problem with it and that was the solenoid on the starter motor. Other than that it has been perfect. The noise has been with it since I bought it and has not got any worse, I was trying to find out what was causing it. When I first bought it I decided to have the ECU remapped, what a difference that made, incredible! I had to put new discs on and replace the clutch after the remap, because it slipped under heavy acceleration. I guess the previous owner had been doing lots of stops and starts hence the disks, the starter motor and the clutch. I find the vehicle a pleasure to drive and is one of the best cars I've ever owned and I've had a few including landrovers. I've had 1962 series 2, 1969 series 3, 1984 defender, 1994 discovery 200tdi and now the 2002 series 2 discovery. I look forward to a later series 3 discovery. In the near future.
Get rid of yours and find one that's been looked after there are some good ones about, looks like you got a bad one.

Regards
RichardG

Hi Richard, Looks like you are landrover enthusiast! Dont get me wrong - the car has many endearing features and i do like it a lot - it is a pleasure to drive and has a fabulous support network (forums like this etc) and readily available cheap spares but if you have to have it re-mapped, remove the EGR gubbins, seal up the sunroofs, check the oil pump is bolted on securely, get rid of the cat, change the injector loom, etc...etc... to get it right then I would suggest that a few design problems do exist that you just don't get with many other vehicles.

Mine has had a hard life but it has a full service history from new and has, so far, had 2 new engines!!! Its just such a shame that a potentially fabulous car is spoiled by so many silly problems. The engine, even when perfectly set up, is a bit harsh and can be noisy at high revs - which again is such a shame because it pulls so well and has great torque. Anyway - I fully intend to keep mine for a while yet so I guess its good points far outweigh its bad points!!

Good look with yours!

John

johndenney said:

Hi Richard, Looks like you are landrover enthusiast! Dont get me wrong - the car has many endearing features and i do like it a lot - it is a pleasure to drive and has a fabulous support network (forums like this etc) and readily available cheap spares but if you have to have it re-mapped, remove the EGR gubbins, seal up the sunroofs, check the oil pump is bolted on securely, get rid of the cat, change the injector loom, etc...etc... to get it right then I would suggest that a few design problems do exist that you just don't get with many other vehicles.



Good look with yours!

John

Click to expand...

Yep but ya wanna see what a slitty driver has to do to go places a std Discovery will go.

Hi Richard,
I have just been out and re-done the injector clearances and it is now VERY quiet - only the slightest diesel knock when cold which goes away after a few minutes of driving. I was very careful to get them bang on the highest point of the cam and then tighten them up FULLY with a well fitting screwdriver, then back off one full turn (no more!). Pay careful attention to getting the clearance correct as it really seems to to make a difference and has sorted out the clatter. My engine is still quite new so I guess it has been settling down lately hence my need to re-adjust. Hope this helps... by the way I have recently fitted new engine mounts as well which has transformed the car - much smoother and quieter especially at motorway speeds.

John

ps what is a slitty driver?

johndenney said:

Hi Richard,
I have just been out and re-done the injector clearances and it is now VERY quiet - only the slightest diesel knock when cold which goes away after a few minutes of driving. I was very careful to get them bang on the highest point of the cam and then tighten them up FULLY with a well fitting screwdriver, then back off one full turn (no more!). Pay careful attention to getting the clearance correct as it really seems to to make a difference and has sorted out the clatter. My engine is still quite new so I guess it has been settling down lately hence my need to re-adjust. Hope this helps... by the way I have recently fitted new engine mounts as well which has transformed the car - much smoother and quieter especially at motorway speeds.

John

ps what is a slitty driver?

Click to expand...

Hi John:

1. A slitty driver is a poor misguided sole who, without having taken his medication, strays into the showroom of an inscrupulous vender of foreign vehicles and is seduced by the promises of absolute reliability (Toyota for example )

2. I would be grateful if you could tell me in laymans terms, a bit more about this injectors adjustments you have been doing, as I've not had to do this yet and our latest purchase (TD5 auto) is a little bit more noisy than my existing one.

Cheers
Dave

Hi Dave, Firstly I am no expert! but... I have been on a mission to quieten down my Disco 2 landmark and I seem to have finally succeeded. The adjustment is pretty straight forward..

1. I do it from cold ie let it stand overnight.
2. Remove the plastic cover on the engine.
3. Remove the top cover - loads of 8mm bolts...
4. Put car in gear so you can turn the engine over as you shove it (needed daughter to help!)
5. Turn engine till cam lifts the injector rocker arm fully.
6. Undo the 13mm lock nut and screw in the adjuster ALL the way. (quite tight)
7. Back off 360 degrees - no more.
8. Re - tighten lock nut..

Do the other 4 in the same way - just push the car along a bit to get the cam in the right position.

Put it all back together... and take out of gear before you start her up!

Hope this helps... it worked for me but I am new to Landrovers so I am not very experienced... as yet!

John

johndenney said:

Hi Dave, Firstly I am no expert! but... I have been on a mission to quieten down my Disco 2 landmark and I seem to have finally succeeded. The adjustment is pretty straight forward..

1. I do it from cold ie let it stand overnight.
2. Remove the plastic cover on the engine.
3. Remove the top cover - loads of 8mm bolts...
4. Put car in gear so you can turn the engine over as you shove it (needed daughter to help!)
5. Turn engine till cam lifts the injector rocker arm fully.
6. Undo the 13mm lock nut and screw in the adjuster ALL the way. (quite tight)
7. Back off 360 degrees - no more.
8. Re - tighten lock nut..

Do the other 4 in the same way - just push the car along a bit to get the cam in the right position.

Put it all back together... and take out of gear before you start her up!

Hope this helps... it worked for me but I am new to Landrovers so I am not very experienced... as yet!

John

Click to expand...

And dont forget to manually turn the engine over when done (i use a socket on the crank bolt) to make sure all the injectors are adjusted correctly (too small a clearance and the follower will bottom out on the injector and the engine souldnt turn by hand. if it's all wrong and you just start it up - bang goes the injector)

johndenney said:

Hi Dave, Firstly I am no expert! but... I have been on a mission to quieten down my Disco 2 landmark and I seem to have finally succeeded. The adjustment is pretty straight forward..

1. I do it from cold ie let it stand overnight.
2. Remove the plastic cover on the engine.
3. Remove the top cover - loads of 8mm bolts...
4. Put car in gear so you can turn the engine over as you shove it (needed daughter to help!) Mine is autobox so I assume I turn the engine over via the crankshaft?
5. Turn engine till cam lifts the injector rocker arm fully.
6. Undo the 13mm lock nut and screw in the adjuster ALL the way. (quite tight)
7. Back off 360 degrees - no more. I'm assuming these just screw out do they?
8. Re - tighten lock nut..

Do the other 4 in the same way - just push the car along a bit to get the cam in the right position.

Put it all back together... and take out of gear before you start her up!

Hope this helps... it worked for me but I am new to Landrovers so I am not very experienced... as yet!

John

Click to expand...

Thanks very much for that John, I've not had to work on injectors up to now, so it's something new for me. Aren't forums just great when knowledge and experience is shared.

Cheers
Dave

Hello John,
Thanks for all your info regarding the injector clearances. I'm going to have a go at that later. I spoke too soon about not having any problems with my Disco. Went out to it this morning and saw traces of oil on a puddle of water in the drive and a smell of diesel. Had a look round and couldn't see anything, so continued on my journey a 4 mile trip to my local town. When I arrived, got out the car and had another look underneath and to my horror there was lots of diesel dripping from the back axle near the fuel filter, there was diesel all over the back of the car. I abandoned my original plans and shot off to my chosen garage, put it on their lift and found that a pipe has split coming out of the top of the fuel tank. So I've left it for them to do. They lent me a Mitsubishi L200 while they get it fixed, what a load of junk that is. I want my Disco back!

Regards
RichardG

The Biglad....I guess with an auto you will need to get a spanner on the crankshaft bolt - I think the engine turns clockwise viewed from the front. The adjusters are just like tappet adjusters and screw in and out with a flat bladed screwdriver and are locked in place by the lock nut.

Richard... sorry to hear about the problems. Every time I look at this forum it convinces me that Landrovers are prone to far too many faults for a modern car. My local garage have more work from Landrovers than any other make - they love them!

I had an L200 - brand new and it was a dreadful thing to drive - wandered all over the road and needed a service every 4500 miles.. Needless to say I got rid (but it never broke down!).

Keep smiling!

John