rust.

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david451

david451

New Member
Posts
1,955
Location
scotland
Been through all the threads last year, but still foiled by rust and more rust, the waxoil is total ****e as the threads said no, totally nil penetration. and it's all flaking off. And the other ones fook yer lungs.

Spraying old engine oil is a major health hazard, and it fooks all the rubber bits, so does anybody have any other options like veg oil or linseed oil or sumut I'm gona toss my geny and compressor in the back and go somewhere and spray it to fook again. it's nice and dry and wif somut that will soak in sorted

Any mad chemists on here.
 
There was an article in LRO a while back about painting the chassis with a high-zinc-content paint, not as good as galvie-ing it but it can be done in situ! There is no substitute for a galvie chassis, and the idea of waxoyl is that it's done every year, most important thing i reckon is lots of clean fresh water to get all the mud off after playing, or the salt off after launghing etc. I think the idea of any oil sprayed over it is to basically make it anaerobic and the only way to really do that is while the substance is effectively still "wet", which is why oily things are good as they don't really wash off (or resist washing off better)
 
Getting all the ****e from the nooks and crannies is the most important imo. It's also almost impossible to do with the Landy in one piece. I reckon regular washing underneath goes further than any waxoil or other stuff.
 
I agree completely Hughesy, i spent ages pressure washing mine the other day and then clambered underneath (while the sun was setting so there was loads of light shining up under the chassis) to do the props, and noticed absolutely masses of bits i'd missed! Just glad i'm not on a water meter - i think the only way of doing it thoroughly is to actually clamber underneath with the power washer (which is fine now it's summer!)
 
So apart from giving it a damn good wash underneath, is there anything else you should do before you wax oil, hammerite, paint etc underneath?

after reading this thread should prob do mine really, thanks david for remindin me, had kind of put it to the back of me mind. Like you say whilst the weather's being good, worth doing it.
 
Hows about trying summit called "anchor wax" Its commonly used within the classic VW scene for preserving the patina/og paint on splitscreen vans 1949-1967.
I bought 5 litres off a gadgy of a forum site About the Split Screen Van Club a few years back when I had a 67 splitscreen VW bus that was still in its original paint. No rust/filler and you could even see the undercoat showing through the faded white paint. The bus was from California and I wanted to preserve the look of it rather than painting it all shiny, cause any old ****ter full of filler and rust can have a shiny paint job. Anyhow, I sold the bus before I applied it but am going to use it for the underside of our 63 bus and the S3 landy.
Its primarily manufactured for the metal industry to allow them to dip metals in it and then leave outside without rusting. Apparently its impregnable to any fluid whether it be rain, oil etc. It comes in 5 litre tins and I was thinking that I may use a spray gun or one of them waxoil attachments to do it. It does work for sure. The fella I bought this off has a 1967 bus from Texas, he bought it over, anchor waxed the whole lot and since he's had it in the UK (4 years) it looks as it did when it came off the boat from sunny old USA.
This link is not the fella I bought it off but its the same stuff:
The Split Screen Van Club :: View topic - Ankor Wax
The fella that describes how to apply it is the one I got it off in the link below:
The Split Screen Van Club :: View topic - Applying Ankor Wax ?
After all that, I've found a direct link to Anchor wax....well worth a try!
Automotive Lubricants - Engine Oils - Multipurpose Greases - Aerosols - Morris Lubricants - UK
 
odenne said:
There was an article in LRO a while back about painting the chassis with a high-zinc-content paint, not as good as galvie-ing it but it can be done in situ! There is no substitute for a galvie chassis, and the idea of waxoyl is that it's done every year, most important thing i reckon is lots of clean fresh water to get all the mud off after playing, or the salt off after launghing etc. I think the idea of any oil sprayed over it is to basically make it anaerobic and the only way to really do that is while the substance is effectively still "wet", which is why oily things are good as they don't really wash off (or resist washing off better)
Click to expand...

The waxoil just seemed to lay on it and it continued to rust and I recon that if I blasted it then all the wax will come off because it's not really stuck to it. I would like to think that it had at least penetrated but it's ****e.

During my days working on trucks the grease from the 5th wheel welded itself to the bastid chassis, and nothing rusted anywhere near that area, pressure washing it off was a bitch because it would not break up, and it penetrated the rusty bits and left a residue after it was washed off

There has to be an oil that is practical, safe and which penetrates the chassis into all the nooks and cranies, and that would mean that the mud would not stick to it, unlike wax.

I stuck that acid gel stuff on a bit on my merc after taking it down to the bare metal then priming it and painting it and it came right back through so I guess zinc might be the same.
 
paulypaul said:
Hows about trying summit called "anchor wax" Its commonly used within the classic VW scene for preserving the patina/og paint on splitscreen vans 1949-1967.
I bought 5 litres off a gadgy of a forum site About the Split Screen Van Club a few years back when I had a 67 splitscreen VW bus that was still in its original paint. No rust/filler and you could even see the undercoat showing through the faded white paint. The bus was from California and I wanted to preserve the look of it rather than painting it all shiny, cause any old ****ter full of filler and rust can have a shiny paint job. Anyhow, I sold the bus before I applied it but am going to use it for the underside of our 63 bus and the S3 landy.
Its primarily manufactured for the metal industry to allow them to dip metals in it and then leave outside without rusting. Apparently its impregnable to any fluid whether it be rain, oil etc. It comes in 5 litre tins and I was thinking that I may use a spray gun or one of them waxoil attachments to do it. It does work for sure. The fella I bought this off has a 1967 bus from Texas, he bought it over, anchor waxed the whole lot and since he's had it in the UK (4 years) it looks as it did when it came off the boat from sunny old USA.
This link is not the fella I bought it off but its the same stuff:
The Split Screen Van Club :: View topic - Ankor Wax
The fella that describes how to apply it is the one I got it off in the link below:
The Split Screen Van Club :: View topic - Applying Ankor Wax ?
After all that, I've found a direct link to Anchor wax....well worth a try!
Automotive Lubricants - Engine Oils - Multipurpose Greases - Aerosols - Morris Lubricants - UK
Click to expand...

I think the problem is that if the metal is rust free then you have a chance but most of the landies are rusty and all you do is cover rust whilst it festers away under the wax. if it dont penetrate then it dont stop the rust, like engine oil.
 
Went through the web last night and it seems that tests were done on old engine oil and apart from the obvious health hazards it accelerates rust because of acids in it.

Veg oil holds water so thats **** as well.

It's almost like a conspiracy, not a load of research gone into preserving metals, like the manufacturers want them to rot, as if they would.

Sticking them in a garage is no use as well even if heated, two places where I worked did that with their fleet one unheated and the other heated and they rusted to fook, good ventilation is the key.

A couple claimed to work but no proof.
 
Hi guys,
There is no cure for rust, corrosion, fatigue or what ever else you call it. Its only possible to slow the process down and to do that effectivly you MUST clean off all the old corrosion.
No.1 protection is galv dip, no contest.
N0.2 would be ( on new steel) to paint it with a very high zinc content, 2 pack epoxy primer, then another coating of MIO (micatious iron oxid) epoxy
then seal with any 2 pack paint. This coating is used in industry and shipping.
I use it on containers for the off shore oil rig comanies and it has a 20-30 year warranty ( but only on sound undamaged surfaces) once chipped it lets the whole process start, but it slows this down considerably.
These coatings (and galv) is known as a "sacrificial coating" in other words these are designed to breakdown at a controled rate and leave the steel, (or substrate) protected. Biggest problem is these are heavy thick coatings and are brittle, So would probably need some sort of rubberised coating as an anti chip protector.
All very time consumming and expensive.
No3 You must clean up any rust you have, best method is shot blast, but you must protect the bared steel as fast as a fast thing, before moisture sets in. You could apply the epoxy zinc coating and once cured coat with an anti stone chip coating. if it is prepped properly, applied well and left to cure for the recommended time you should have a very durable, rust free and washable surface that will last for quite a few years. Only thing to note is with any paint or enen galv, is you must do regular inspections and repair any exposed substrate to keep the rust at bay.
Sorry for the long winded answer but its not a quick easy problem to solve.
Leigh's Paints of bolton do all these special coatings for the shipping, oil rig and industrial trades. Dont know if they would supply in small quantities but worth the asking. I use it every day and have found no better, and have had only 2 warrenty claims in 15 years ( one of which was a customers fault not the paints.)
Hope this helps.
Need anymore help please ask, i'll do my best. Been painting cars for years and moved to run an industrial paint facility for the last 15 so know a thing or two about painting protective coatings. Incidently, do not use used engine oil it contains carsonogenics, and will do nothing for the car as it also containd microscopic mtallic particals.
Bottom line is ifs its already rusted then its going to continue rusting, untill you do any of the above, but still only slows it down. have a mate that works in a salt mine andthey have very old bedford trucks and landrovers that havent seen the light of day and they have zero rust on them, no seriously, no corrossion at all!, why? because there is no moisture in the air so oxidisation cant start.
Cheers
Ron
 
falcoron said:
Hi guys,
There is no cure for rust, corrosion, fatigue or what ever else you call it. Its only possible to slow the process down and to do that effectivly you MUST clean off all the old corrosion.
No.1 protection is galv dip, no contest.
N0.2 would be ( on new steel) to paint it with a very high zinc content, 2 pack epoxy primer, then another coating of MIO (micatious iron oxid) epoxy
then seal with any 2 pack paint. This coating is used in industry and shipping.
I use it on containers for the off shore oil rig comanies and it has a 20-30 year warranty ( but only on sound undamaged surfaces) once chipped it lets the whole process start, but it slows this down considerably.
These coatings (and galv) is known as a "sacrificial coating" in other words these are designed to breakdown at a controled rate and leave the steel, (or substrate) protected. Biggest problem is these are heavy thick coatings and are brittle, So would probably need some sort of rubberised coating as an anti chip protector.
All very time consumming and expensive.
No3 You must clean up any rust you have, best method is shot blast, but you must protect the bared steel as fast as a fast thing, before moisture sets in. You could apply the epoxy zinc coating and once cured coat with an anti stone chip coating. if it is prepped properly, applied well and left to cure for the recommended time you should have a very durable, rust free and washable surface that will last for quite a few years. Only thing to note is with any paint or enen galv, is you must do regular inspections and repair any exposed substrate to keep the rust at bay.
Sorry for the long winded answer but its not a quick easy problem to solve.
Leigh's Paints of bolton do all these special coatings for the shipping, oil rig and industrial trades. Dont know if they would supply in small quantities but worth the asking. I use it every day and have found no better, and have had only 2 warrenty claims in 15 years ( one of which was a customers fault not the paints.)
Hope this helps.
Need anymore help please ask, i'll do my best. Been painting cars for years and moved to run an industrial paint facility for the last 15 so know a thing or two about painting protective coatings. Incidently, do not use used engine oil it contains carsonogenics, and will do nothing for the car as it also containd microscopic mtallic particals.
Bottom line is ifs its already rusted then its going to continue rusting, untill you do any of the above, but still only slows it down. have a mate that works in a salt mine andthey have very old bedford trucks and landrovers that havent seen the light of day and they have zero rust on them, no seriously, no corrossion at all!, why? because there is no moisture in the air so oxidisation cant start.
Cheers
Ron
Click to expand...

So the applications that allegedly soak into the rust are just ****ing in the wind, those convertors, gels that convert rust to a protective surface are no use either, well I found them rubbish anyway.

I think the practicality of trying to preserve a vehicle is diminishing, I have a landie and a merc sports and to be honest I am thinking now of just changing them when they fall apart, in actual fact the health issues of this preservation process makes me think that if we pursue this process the vehicles might be here when we are not. And yesterday when rolling about under my merc I could have been soaking up the sun with a good book.
 
Know whay you mean David, life's too short to worry too much about a landy rusting.
Rust converters are only good if 1) you buy a really good one 2) you prepare the surface with a really deep steam clean, and remove all loose stuff, 3) cover the treated metal with a protective coating as soon as possible.
Follow this and it will be better than you tried before i promise you, but its a bit of money.

Get it to a steam cleaners and pay him twice what he usually charges and get him to crank up the heat so its really steam not just hot water and get it as clean as you can. When its really dry spray on some dinotrol rust converter
Rust proofing products for automotive, marine and industrial applications its a far superior product than you get in the car shops but its a lot more expensive.
Then coat with this,Rust proofing products for automotive, marine and industrial applications it is again a better and more abrasive resistant coating tahn waxoyl
Ive used these before, with far better results than waxoyl on vintage restoration projects ( although you dont see these over the local fields and fords) but none the less it did work and i know the car is still in prestege condition 15 years on.
Worth a try. let me know how you get on
Ron.
Buy the way found out my mate has a 89 90 hardtop 2.5 diesel with disc brakes, in pretty sound condition mechenically good and i've been offered it for £500!!
Going for a look and spin next week.
 
falcoron said:
Know whay you mean David, life's too short to worry too much about a landy rusting.
Rust converters are only good if 1) you buy a really good one 2) you prepare the surface with a really deep steam clean, and remove all loose stuff, 3) cover the treated metal with a protective coating as soon as possible.
Follow this and it will be better than you tried before i promise you, but its a bit of money.

Get it to a steam cleaners and pay him twice what he usually charges and get him to crank up the heat so its really steam not just hot water and get it as clean as you can. When its really dry spray on some dinotrol rust converter
Rust proofing products for automotive, marine and industrial applications its a far superior product than you get in the car shops but its a lot more expensive.
Then coat with this,Rust proofing products for automotive, marine and industrial applications it is again a better and more abrasive resistant coating tahn waxoyl
Ive used these before, with far better results than waxoyl on vintage restoration projects ( although you dont see these over the local fields and fords) but none the less it did work and i know the car is still in prestege condition 15 years on.
Worth a try. let me know how you get on
Ron.
Buy the way found out my mate has a 89 90 hardtop 2.5 diesel with disc brakes, in pretty sound condition mechenically good and i've been offered it for £500!!
Going for a look and spin next week.
Click to expand...

thanks for that.
 
Plus mustn't forget that chassis generally rust from the inside outwards, and applying any of the above is pretty much impossible to the inside of your tubes. I'm adopting a policy of cleaning the crap of regularly but accepting that rust happens and when it gets bad enough repair or replace the rusty bits. Most of the vulnerable bits on a LR chassis are replaceable fairly easily.
 
Best way to avoid rust is to live somewhere where it doesn't rain all the time. I have a 1984 Renault 5 and a 1987 Audi 200, both of which live outside and are rust free. My 1995 Defender 110 was built as standard with a galv chassis and should last until the next millenium. The chassis were galvanized because many Land Rovers are used at the coast, where rust is a problem.

You must excuse my rather tongue-in-cheek reply, but I owned cars in the UK for a few years and remember the problems with rust. My mother once fell through our old Hillman Minx when the seat floor gave way...

Of course the problem we have here is the plastic bits fall apart with all the UV light.
 
JimAttrill said:
Best way to avoid rust is to live somewhere where it doesn't rain all the time. I have a 1984 Renault 5 and a 1987 Audi 200, both of which live outside and are rust free. My 1995 Defender 110 was built as standard with a galv chassis and should last until the next millenium. The chassis were galvanized because many Land Rovers are used at the coast, where rust is a problem.

You must excuse my rather tongue-in-cheek reply, but I owned cars in the UK for a few years and remember the problems with rust. My mother once fell through our old Hillman Minx when the seat floor gave way...

Of course the problem we have here is the plastic bits fall apart with all the UV light.
Click to expand...

Was that the round one or the later one more square, my dad had a gazelle, a sort of up market version of the minx, remember the front wings rusting off it.

The cars in those days rusted to bits in the showrooms, specially the british ****e. Datsun suffered as well alongside lancia.
 
We had lots of Hillman Minxes from a 1948 side valve one onwards. The one that fell to bits the worst was one of the last 'square' ones. I remember my dad wanting to adjust the headlights, the screws were solid with rust, he pushed harder and the whole light and surround fell into the wing. And then the Mcpherson struts came up through the bonnet, then my mother fell through the floor... Oh, the great days of the British motor industry :)
 
JimAttrill said:
We had lots of Hillman Minxes from a 1948 side valve one onwards. The one that fell to bits the worst was one of the last 'square' ones. I remember my dad wanting to adjust the headlights, the screws were solid with rust, he pushed harder and the whole light and surround fell into the wing. And then the Mcpherson struts came up through the bonnet, then my mother fell through the floor... Oh, the great days of the British motor industry :)
Click to expand...

Wonder what happened to the british motor industry :confused:
Cant understand it :rolleyes:
 
falcoron said:
Wonder what happened to the british motor industry :confused:
Cant understand it :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Never mind rust just look at development, the mini was one of the most iconic vehicles to be built and we were unable to develop it, it took BMW the fookin gerry's to kick it into the 21st century, along with I might add landrover.

We should be fookin ashamed of ourselves.
 
david451 said:
Never mind rust just look at development, the mini was one of the most iconic vehicles to be built and we were unable to develop it, it took BMW the fookin gerry's to kick it into the 21st century, along with I might add landrover.

We should be fookin ashamed of ourselves.
Click to expand...

RIGHT THAT'S FECKING IT!!!!
IM ON STRIKE! :D
 
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