RR Classic vs P38

James R said:

No one's discussed the looks of the car. I know it's purely subjective but I just can't live with the way the P38 looks. Am I alone in this?

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I have to say its not for me, especially when pimped up as they often are.

whats needed is a compromise between classic simplicity and p38 rust resistance and modernisation. thats where slittys fit in well and I have added one to the fleet along side my range rovers

James R said:

Rob...two things : Fett's a really nice chap and, secondly, if you look back, you were the first one to start swearing. Just pack it in. This place isn't usually like this.

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I would suggest you read the thread before you jump in to support anyone. The first swearing was in post 19 and nothing to do with me. The point about flogging a dead horse wasn't missed it was ignored as I have no wish to partake in silly games. It isn't polite or intelligent to bully over the internet and I will not tolerate anyone who thinks that is the way to behave. Every single member starts with 1 post so the post count means nothing. What is more important is the quality of the information being posted and 20 posts saying I agree mate mean nothing.

James R said:

No one's discussed the looks of the car. I know it's purely subjective but I just can't live with the way the P38 looks. Am I alone in this?

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Of course everyone will have their preferences - but I much prefer the look of the P38 over the classic and even more so over the L322.

Rob Edge said:

I would suggest you read the thread before you jump in to support anyone. The first swearing was in post 19 and nothing to do with me. The point about flogging a dead horse wasn't missed it was ignored as I have no wish to partake in silly games. It isn't polite or intelligent to bully over the internet and I will not tolerate anyone who thinks that is the way to behave. Every single member starts with 1 post so the post count means nothing. What is more important is the quality of the information being posted and 20 posts saying I agree mate mean nothing.

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rob its you who wont let it go , we dont want to bully you. just leave it alone like I have said already.

StuckAgainSteve said:

Of course everyone will have their preferences - but I much prefer the look of the P38 over the classic and even more so over the L322.

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Im still in two minds on the l322, somtimes I like it and others not. I wonder what its like if really put to the test off road?

In Toyota We Rust? | The Truth About Cars

Daihatsus too - Many models would give an Alfasud a run for their money in the disappear-before-your-very-eyes stakes.

fett said:

Im still in two minds on the l322, somtimes I like it and others not. I wonder what its like if really put to the test off road?

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As long as we're not talking deep mud where weight always counts against you, a L322 on the right tyres is unstoppable, the suspension articulation is better any other Land Rover product by far.

how do they like the water?

StuckAgainSteve said:

In Toyota We Rust? | The Truth About Cars

Daihatsus too - Many models would give an Alfasud a run for their money in the disappear-before-your-very-eyes stakes.

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if you think thats bad , on the 90 series colorado which is the smaller ones fromt he 90's the whole back axel mounts rust off lol- seen a few on ebay like that one was both side only held on by the springs and shocks

not the 80 series though.

fett said:

how do they like the water?

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The wade depths for standard LR cars only varies from ~500-700mm. There's not much to choose from any of them as far as I can see!

was thinking more about the electrics on the p38 really not liking water at all and that the l322 might not be much better?

fett said:

was thinking more about the electrics on the p38 really not liking water at all and that the l322 might not be much better?

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That's why manufacturers specify wading limits, if you want to start fitting snorkels and going through deep water - sure the more complicated the electrics the more chance there is of something going wrong, however modern connectors are much better than old ones when it comes to keeping water at bay. If you dip a ECU into water it's probably toast. That's "progress" for you I guess...

MikeV8SE said:

rasheed - what on earth are you using your P38 for?! Doesn't sound like competition use as it's standard (no roll cage) - where are you driving in these conditions for this length of time?

Also, any pictures/video footage of it in action? I'm shocked it's putting up with such punishment to be honest!

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Well to be very precise its not really non-stop, there are wee breaks, ciggy breaks and waiting-for-the-ferry breaks so i guess those are more like total journey times. There are very slow stretches and then other places where you try to make up time so though I say "blast" and there are sections where you can run at 140 there are many more where you never go over 20 or 30 (kms). I mean 12 hours for say 400km is not fast per se and I'm only quick when compared to others who make the same journey but drive lesser cars. All this is in Bangladesh where I spend 6 months of the year selling industrial machinery and setting up factories for people which means I have to travel far and wide. Out here if you show me a metalled road I'll show you bumper to bumper traffic. The only way around if travelling any distance is to get off the main roads and literally snake around on narrow lesser roads through the paddy fields, the woodlands and the villages.

I did once tape one of those extreme-sports helmet cams on the rearview mirror but all I got was blur. Will try again next time if I figure out some way to stabilise the camera a bit.

StuckAgainSteve said:

I know P38s have a rep for being good offroad when they were new - I was just wondering if the EAS is as delicate as other Landy owners make out. I suspect not.

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Its pretty rugged I'd say. Just the compressor that's in my view underpowered and therefore more stressed and prone to failure than it needed to be. The airbags themselves are almost impossible to burst if not old and perished and as I mentioned earlier its the car's comfort and control that makes these drives possible. A P38 on air with 16" wheels, 65mm sidewall tires and rubber (not poly) suspension and steering bushes offers a ride quality that is hard to fault.

Driven a couple of Classics, but never owned one, own a P38 and have owned (and repaired) a Disco 200TDi (a Classic in drag...okay sack-cloth!!).

Ignoring diesel -v- petrol differences, in my opinion the Classic isn't a patch on the P38 to drive, neither are hugely difficult to keep on the road, neither cost a fortune if you can wield a spanner (and use a forum like this one) but the P38 has 4 crucial advantages...

1. No rust to speak of.
2. Space proportionate to the amount of road it hogs (rear seats in a Classic/Disco 1 are a bit of a joke for anyone over 6 foot, a P38 is almost limo-like in comparison).
3. A boot that can actually take a proper load without removing the spare wheel...or worrying the load will disappear through the rust hole in the floor
4. Much nicer/roomier interior (quality of plastics/switchgear aside...frankly both are rubbish!!).

Both (for their respective time) genuinely provided an amazing compromise between on-road and off-road performance; both take you from A-B in true comfort regardless of prevailing conditions and both contribute significantly to the annual bonuses of oil industry executives. However a P38 has 25 years of chassis/suspension development to its advantage.

Day-to-day P38 for me without question, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at any Classic (but I would invest in welding classes!!)

heres my two penny worth...

I owned a 1990 RRC from 1997 to 2010... it was a beluga black vse with the charcoal leather interior. fell in love with that car the first day i saw it.I dont know if it was just my luck but I loved that car. It had been owned by a army officer in the REME and he had his 'chaps' take care of it while he owned it. I dont know maybe the tightened all the nuts up on it but whilst I owned it it was a absolute joy. It came fully loaded with all the toys and side steps, gun rack , roof racks, bull bar, etc.

In all the time I had it it only let me down twice..once the radiator went ..turned out it was clogged and weighed about 2lbs to much .. my fault for not replacing it... and another time it went on strike at a junction and just stopped . It turned out to be a faulty relay!.

apart from that it passed every MOT and the only major work was the dreaded heater matrix...........that cost..bout £800.

Now heres the moral of my love story... In 2007 I got married and 2010 our first born was due. I had a collection of 3 classic cars then with a mercedes 280se 1969 and a GP motorsports porsche 930 turbo slope nose.
:nopics:
Being all grown up I decided the time had come to sell them all and put some money aside for my new daughter. They all went .. the merc with its double chrome bumpers, white ring tyres and white steering wheel and the 930 porsche cabrio with ite 3.3 blue printed turbo engine and lastly my range rover.

Of all the cars that drove off the RRC was the only one that brought a tear to my eye.

I since bought at an l322 and a volvo saloon to get to work. They are both lovely and comfortable luxurious.

However I cant help feeling that they wont still be around in 30 yrs like my rrc was and because of that I still miss her..... :nothingtoadd:

steviebabes said:

I have a 1997 4.6 HSE and my partner has a 2003 4.2 TD Land Cruiser Amazon. They are both great in their own way. I'd really hate to part with either of 'em.

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I assume you mean the P38 and the Partner...

malcolm_durant said:

Driven a couple of Classics, but never owned one, own a P38 and have owned (and repaired) a Disco 200TDi (a Classic in drag...okay sack-cloth!!).

Ignoring diesel -v- petrol differences, in my opinion the Classic isn't a patch on the P38 to drive, neither are hugely difficult to keep on the road, neither cost a fortune if you can wield a spanner (and use a forum like this one) but the P38 has 4 crucial advantages...

1. No rust to speak of.
2. Space proportionate to the amount of road it hogs (rear seats in a Classic/Disco 1 are a bit of a joke for anyone over 6 foot, a P38 is almost limo-like in comparison).
3. A boot that can actually take a proper load without removing the spare wheel...or worrying the load will disappear through the rust hole in the floor
4. Much nicer/roomier interior (quality of plastics/switchgear aside...frankly both are rubbish!!).

Both (for their respective time) genuinely provided an amazing compromise between on-road and off-road performance; both take you from A-B in true comfort regardless of prevailing conditions and both contribute significantly to the annual bonuses of oil industry executives. However a P38 has 25 years of chassis/suspension development to its advantage.

Day-to-day P38 for me without question, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at any Classic (but I would invest in welding classes!!)

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Well said.raise:

great reading this is , keep it going lads !

Rob Edge said:

Every single member starts with 1 post so the post count means nothing. What is more important is the quality of the information being posted and 20 posts saying I agree mate mean nothing.

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No. With a high post count you can see what someone is like. All your posts have been argumentative so far so the impression one gleans from this is that you like an argument.

fett said:

was thinking more about the electrics on the p38 really not liking water at all and that the l322 might not be much better?

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StuckAgainSteve said:

That's why manufacturers specify wading limits, if you want to start fitting snorkels and going through deep water - sure the more complicated the electrics the more chance there is of something going wrong, however modern connectors are much better than old ones when it comes to keeping water at bay. If you dip a ECU into water it's probably toast. That's "progress" for you I guess...

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I believe all air suspension LR's products are rated @ 500mm wading depth, or 540mm in "offroad" mode. I can assure you a Disco 3 and Disco 4 both go through fairly deep water with no problem, as we found out on a greenlaning weekend in Wales earlier this year:

rasheed said:

I did once tape one of those extreme-sports helmet cams on the rearview mirror but all I got was blur. Will try again next time if I figure out some way to stabilise the camera a bit.

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Try a Go-Pro HD camera, they're pretty good at recording these sort of antics! Perhaps mount it on the dash or somewhere more solid than the rear view mirror?

rasheed said:

The airbags themselves are almost impossible to burst if not old and perished and as I mentioned earlier its the car's comfort and control that makes these drives possible. A P38 on air with 16" wheels, 65mm sidewall tires and rubber (not poly) suspension and steering bushes offers a ride quality that is hard to fault.

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I too think the airbags themselves are pretty robust when in good condition, but I am concerned about them popping off their mountings - e.g. if fully extended and not seated right when the suspension compresses back down.

Oh, and the sidewall profile is a percentage not a measurement! I.e. 225/65/16 has a 147mm high sidewall (65% of 225mm), not 65mm...that would be very low profile for a RR wheel!! The 235/35/17 tyres on the back of my BMW are 80mm high, and look like elastic bands wrapped round a wheel!!