Re: charity calendar - update

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M

Mother

Guest
On Thu, 05 May 2005 13:37:11 +0100, MVP <mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net>
wrote:

>Bad news folks,


Can I make a suggestion Mark?

Why not collaborate with an existing and well established initiative
hereabouts?

Posh Ted

Ted could appear in all the shots with the motors (and, obviously, the
wimin) - may take a little co-ordination, however, this would also
make the calendar less of an overty 'garage wall' affair. Soften it
down so to speak.

Ted also has an established and agreed two nominated charity
beneficiaries, a very decent website and a ready market.

I know this would mean you'd partially lose ownership of the project,
however it may make sense to assess the target for the product and
place it within an established framework.

Just a thought.

 
Mark,

Tough luck and I agree f**k em all, but please don't lose heart and carry on
with the project.

I notice a lot of you are saying RNLI, good cause and all heroes.

I am intrigued why Mountain Rescue & Lowland SAR has a hard time in getting
recognition as a deserving charity. We too are volunteers and get no money
from anyone except public donations. My team in Bolton www.boltonmrt.org.uk
always gets the where are the mountains in Bolton, but the RNLI collecting
box gets more money when Bolton is 40 miles from the nearest sea.

I would suggest my team, but a donation to Mountain Rescue - England & Wales
would allow all teams to carry on receiving central training funding and
limited equipment purchases, such as rope and stretcher.

I really really would like to know why RNLI always appears above MR when in
esscence we are the same, volunteers and get only public donations. Has the
RNLI really got that better PR ?

Dave
96 Disco
and access to 4 x 110 MR Ambulances :)


 
Dave H wrote:

> I would suggest my team, but a donation to Mountain Rescue - England & Wales
> would allow all teams to carry on receiving central training funding and
> limited equipment purchases, such as rope and stretcher.
>

Given where we use 4X4 vehicles, SAR seems an ideal donation to me too.

Steve
 
On Thu, 05 May 2005 22:08:54 +0100, MVP <mr.nice@*nospam*softhome.net>
wrote:

>I already intended throwing 50% to MacMillan Cancer Relief via Posh
>Ted.


My suggestion wasn't about the money - per se, more the branding and
positioning of the project and product.

By the way, I'm not in Leeds... :)

 
Dave H came up with the following;:
> Mark,
>
> Tough luck and I agree f**k em all, but please don't lose heart and carry
> on with the project.
>
> I notice a lot of you are saying RNLI, good cause and all heroes.
>
> I am intrigued why Mountain Rescue & Lowland SAR has a hard time in
> getting recognition as a deserving charity. We too are volunteers and get
> no money from anyone except public donations. My team in Bolton
> www.boltonmrt.org.uk always gets the where are the mountains in Bolton,
> but the RNLI collecting box gets more money when Bolton is 40 miles from
> the nearest sea.
>
> I would suggest my team, but a donation to Mountain Rescue - England &
> Wales would allow all teams to carry on receiving central training
> funding and limited equipment purchases, such as rope and stretcher.


You make an excellent argument for MR receiving the readies .. ;)

> I really really would like to know why RNLI always appears above MR when
> in esscence we are the same, volunteers and get only public donations.
> Has the RNLI really got that better PR ?


Yes.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
For Sale on Ebay
5771988658

 
"Mother" <"@ {m} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> By the way, I'm not in Leeds... :)


Hey I saw nothing in the small print about S & M......



Lee D


 
In message <[email protected]>, Dave H
<[email protected]> writes
>Mark,
>
>Tough luck and I agree f**k em all, but please don't lose heart and carry on
>with the project.
>
>I notice a lot of you are saying RNLI, good cause and all heroes.
>
>I am intrigued why Mountain Rescue & Lowland SAR has a hard time in getting
>recognition as a deserving charity. We too are volunteers and get no money
>from anyone except public donations. My team in Bolton www.boltonmrt.org.uk
>always gets the where are the mountains in Bolton, but the RNLI collecting
>box gets more money when Bolton is 40 miles from the nearest sea.
>
>I would suggest my team, but a donation to Mountain Rescue - England & Wales
>would allow all teams to carry on receiving central training funding and
>limited equipment purchases, such as rope and stretcher.
>
>I really really would like to know why RNLI always appears above MR when in
>esscence we are the same, volunteers and get only public donations. Has the
>RNLI really got that better PR ?
>
>Dave
>96 Disco
>and access to 4 x 110 MR Ambulances :)
>
>

Well at least you get some central funding. Lowland Search and rescue
gets nothing at the moment.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
On Thu, 5 May 2005 22:40:38 +0100, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Mother" <"@ {m} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> By the way, I'm not in Leeds... :)

>
>Hey I saw nothing in the small print about S & M......
>
>
>
>Lee D
>


Sheffield and Manchester?


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70
 
> Well at least you get some central funding. Lowland Search and rescue gets
> nothing at the moment.


Sorry Hugh that's fighting talk where we come from. That's is not correct.

Which ALSAR unit are you in ? Ask them for the DoT report into UKSAR infact
email me at dh @ boltonmrt dot org uk and I'll send it to you.

Both ALSAR and MR were interviewed by the DoT Select committee and they
looked into funding amongst other things. Admittedly MR has been lobbying
Parliament for years to try and get Government funding on a par with what
the Scottish teams get each year, possibly before ALSAr was even formed and
this year it drew to a almost nice conclusion until the DoT got involved !!
Now it could be back to square one again. I personally think that what ever
MR get ALSAR will get as well for government.

We still have to stand on a corner at weekends shaking a tin, write begging
letters to people, just like I'm sure you do to.

Dave


 
On Thu, 5 May 2005 22:08:00 +0100, Dave H wrote:

> I really really would like to know why RNLI always appears above MR
> when in esscence we are the same, volunteers and get only public
> donations. Has the RNLI really got that better PR ?


In a word, yes. Not to mention fast boats and call out maroons so
*every body* knows the lifeboat is going out. Far "sexier" profile
than a couple of Land Rovers and a load of people going for a walk up
a hill.

Perhaps a rebranding is in order? I suspect changing "Bolton Mountain
Rescue Team" to "Bolton Search and Rescue" would improve the image and
remove the "Where are the mountains in Bolton?" questions...

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
> In a word, yes. Not to mention fast boats and call out maroons so
> *every body* knows the lifeboat is going out. Far "sexier" profile
> than a couple of Land Rovers and a load of people going for a walk up
> a hill.


Interesting choice of comparisons Dave. I thought maroons had long gone and
its all pager/radio call outs now. Yes, you may see the boat depart the
moorings but then thats it, its just a dot on the horizon. To me a MR
incident is far sexier with a blue light run in the 110 ambulances, driving
off road to get to the casualty, a helicopter coming in to land, watched by
300 people. Watching you perform first aid on the casualty as you carry them
to the helicopter and then the helicopter departs, leaving the team with the
aftermath of the incident to deal with. Happened to us three weeks ago.

> Perhaps a rebranding is in order? I suspect changing "Bolton Mountain
> Rescue Team" to "Bolton Search and Rescue" would improve the image and
> remove the "Where are the mountains in Bolton?" questions...


Unfortunately every one affiliated to the Mountain Rescue Council changed
their names to help MR corporate image, all the fell rescue, search and
rescue, moorland rescue became Mountain Rescue, trying to help the public be
aware of who Mountain Rescue is, but i don't think it worked :)

Agree with you on the name change, because that's what we do. But, in saying
that we don't just do mountain incidents, we search in urban & rural flat
areas, we help the fire or police or ambulance service in city centres with
our skill and equipment, we help the ambulance service with peak demand
incidents and at Christmas. Blatant plug have alook at our website and see
the diverse range of incidents we deal with www.boltonmrt.org.uk and then
I'm just adding fire to your name change proposal. The thing is each MRT has
its own identity and as one the top table of MR isn't seen the same as the
RNLI. But still no-one says where is the sea in City centre Manchester when
the RNLI tin gets full.

I'll get me coat :)

Dave


 
Dave Liquorice wrote:

"Where are the mountains in Bolton?" questions...
>

Wilton. They're just not very tall....

Steve
 
On Fri, 6 May 2005 02:00:22 +0100, Dave H wrote:

>> In a word, yes. Not to mention fast boats and call out maroons so
>> *every body* knows the lifeboat is going out. Far "sexier" profile
>> than a couple of Land Rovers and a load of people going for a walk
>> up a hill.

>
> Interesting choice of comparisons Dave. I thought maroons had long
> gone and its all pager/radio call outs now.


The primary call out may well be pager these days but I think they
still fire the maroons so the support staff know and can make their
way to the station (get the kettle on for when the boat comes back
in...) and also to let people know that that lunatic driving with all
his lights on and barging through the traffic isn't really a lunatic
but a volunteer lifeboat man trying to get to the lifeboat station.

Says him having met a couple of the local retained firemen coming the
other way on a wet night and was left wondering who those plonkers
were. It wasn't until I saw the Fire/Rescue tender driving around 10
mins later that I realised who it was...

> Yes, you may see the boat depart the moorings but then thats it, its
> just a dot on the horizon.


Yes, but it's all happening fast, with lots of people "doing things",
normally in a fairly open public place (harbour or beach front). Not a
deserted, wet, wind swept car park half way up a mountain. Bolton may
be different as it's a *very* densly populated area compared to here.

> To me a MR incident is far sexier with a blue light run in the 110
> ambulances, driving off road to get to the casualty, a helicopter
> coming in to land, watched by 300 people.


Yes but I get the feeling you are in the 110 and directly involved,
that *is* much more exciting that standing watching. The helo will
pull people in but round here all you'll see of that is it flying
in/out more often than not it's a RAF SAR helo rather than the Air
Ambulance so doesn't need to land to pick up...

>> Perhaps a rebranding is in order?

>
> Unfortunately every one affiliated to the Mountain Rescue Council
> changed their names to help MR corporate image, all the fell rescue,
> search and rescue, moorland rescue became Mountain Rescue, trying to
> help the public be aware of who Mountain Rescue is, but i don't
> think it worked :)


I think you are right. No doubt someone, with blinkers, at the top of
MRC wanted to retain the word "Mountain" a mistake IMHO. A quick look
at the ALSAR site indicated that there is an offical goverment body
called UKSAR so that couldn't be used but SARUK could and that does
have certain "ring" to it and sounds good when spoken.

> But still no-one says where is the sea in City centre Manchester
> when the RNLI tin gets full.


But I bet the great unwashed of Manchester visit the coast and see the
lifeboat station. Chances are it's probably open so they can look at
the boat and the information boards etc. They may also witness a
launch, even if only a practice for the publicity...

The same great unwashed may well visit the "mountains" but Mountain
Rescue posts are generally closed and locked up and not in such highly
public places.

> I'll get me coat :)


Had a call out? B-)

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
In message <[email protected]>, Dave H
<[email protected]> writes
>> Well at least you get some central funding. Lowland Search and rescue gets
>> nothing at the moment.

>
>Sorry Hugh that's fighting talk where we come from. That's is not correct.
>
>Which ALSAR unit are you in ? Ask them for the DoT report into UKSAR infact
>email me at dh @ boltonmrt dot org uk and I'll send it to you.
>
>Both ALSAR and MR were interviewed by the DoT Select committee and they
>looked into funding amongst other things. Admittedly MR has been lobbying
>Parliament for years to try and get Government funding on a par with what
>the Scottish teams get each year, possibly before ALSAr was even formed and
>this year it drew to a almost nice conclusion until the DoT got involved !!
>Now it could be back to square one again. I personally think that what ever
>MR get ALSAR will get as well for government.
>
>We still have to stand on a corner at weekends shaking a tin, write begging
>letters to people, just like I'm sure you do to.
>
>Dave
>
>

Indeed we do. Sorry if I misunderstood the situation regarding MR
funding - confused it with Scotland.

Although I live in Cheshire I am actually in Staffs Search & Rescue. I
am about to join Cheshire also who I know have been involved with
yourselves. Staffs has initially focussed on use of 4X4s to assist
emergency services (plug for calendar support) but have recently
undergone substantial training with Cheshire on Missing Person Search
techniques. It was all new to me and I was amazed at just how complex an
issue it is and the apparent shortage of expertise within the police.

As always there is a big issue of image and perception, RNLI have very
successfully and professionally projected theirs over a number of years,
and have created a favourable position in the minds of the public, and
good luck to them. MR and LSAR have to learn from them and do the same
thing.

Mention missing person searches and everyone thinks of the line of
villagers lined up for the benefit of the TV crews at the edge of a
field which has already been carefully searched by the police tactical
search team. I am sure you have similar problems with MR and we need to
change things.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
In message <[email protected]>, Dave
Liquorice <[email protected]> writes
>On Thu, 5 May 2005 22:08:00 +0100, Dave H wrote:
>
>> I really really would like to know why RNLI always appears above MR
>> when in esscence we are the same, volunteers and get only public
>> donations. Has the RNLI really got that better PR ?

>
>In a word, yes. Not to mention fast boats and call out maroons so
>*every body* knows the lifeboat is going out. Far "sexier" profile
>than a couple of Land Rovers and a load of people going for a walk up
>a hill.
>
>Perhaps a rebranding is in order? I suspect changing "Bolton Mountain
>Rescue Team" to "Bolton Search and Rescue" would improve the image and
>remove the "Where are the mountains in Bolton?" questions...
>

There is actually a Stafford Mountain rescue team and we do have
technically zero mountains in Staffs - it's at RAF Stafford, shortly to
be relocated to Scotland I believe.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
> in...) and also to let people know that that lunatic driving with all
> his lights on and barging through the traffic isn't really a lunatic
> but a volunteer lifeboat man trying to get to the lifeboat station.
>
> Says him having met a couple of the local retained firemen coming the
> other way on a wet night and was left wondering who those plonkers
> were. It wasn't until I saw the Fire/Rescue tender driving around 10
> mins later that I realised who it was...


Completely off topic but I thought I would ask the several people here
involved.

Would you want green lights (cf doctors) for your vehicle when
responding to callouts if the legislation were put in place?

I have asked this on several occasions in various places and had a range
of answers, negative and positive, unfortunately I'm not in a position
to do anything about it!

Alistair
--
200Tdi Defender 90, 1990
 
On Mon, 09 May 2005 20:35:49 +0100, Alistair Bell wrote:

> Completely off topic but I thought I would ask the several people
> here involved.
>
> Would you want green lights (cf doctors) for your vehicle when
> responding to callouts if the legislation were put in place?


Not involved directly (though have these thoughts of becoming a
retained fireman) but I think it is a bad idea.

a) How many of the great unwashed know what a flashing green light
means?
b) Even the major services complete with blues and twos are supposed
to drive within the law and the drivers under go special training,
some more than others. I don't think it is particulary safe or wise
to allow a volunteer member of the public use such a warning
device. Hum, do the doctors that have them under go any driver
training?

A magnetic mirror image "FIREMAN ON CALL" that you could slap on the
front of your car(*) would be enough to show people infront why you
are driving rather quickly with lights on etc.

(*) Well put on when on a duty period, rather than have to find and
put on when the pager goes off. B-)

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
> a) How many of the great unwashed know what a flashing green light
> means?


How many know not to panic when they see blues.

> b) Even the major services complete with blues and twos are supposed
> to drive within the law and the drivers under go special training,
> some more than others. I don't think it is particulary safe or wise
> to allow a volunteer member of the public use such a warning
> device. Hum, do the doctors that have them under go any driver
> training?


Having had Emergency Response Driver Awareness Training and driven under
Blues and Twos conditions, I would only like to see vehicles used for the
purposes of fire, police and ambulance incidents. I live 13 miles away from
our teams vehicle bases, within 10 mins of our pagers going off a MR
Landrover Ambulance is on route, its important, I feel, to get the
specialist equipment there quickly before the plebs turn up, without the
equipment we can not do the job asked of us. I would love to have Blues on
my vehicle to aid me there quicker, than the 30 mins it takes me to get
there. But the bottom line is when driven correctly, Blues and Twos, only
warn others of the urgency of your journey. Driving within the law on B&T's
only takes a few minutes off your journey time.

> A magnetic mirror image "FIREMAN ON CALL" that you could slap on the
> front of your car(*) would be enough to show people infront why you
> are driving rather quickly with lights on etc.


But a MR Landrover Ambulance or a car with magnetic sign driven badly once
ruins all the work you, may, have put in to get those lights or sign.

Drive under normal road conditions, turn up safe and turn up to do the job
in hand.

Dave


 
On Tue, 10 May 2005 00:08:52 +0100, Dave H wrote:

>> a) How many of the great unwashed know what a flashing green light
>> means?

>
> How many know not to panic when they see blues.


Or even know what a blue light means. I've witnessed several times a
car stopped at traffic lights, with an ambulance or fire engine right
behind it with B&T's going, did the car move nope. It sat there until
the lights changed... OK techincally the car would have jumped the red
light but proceeding with caution and getting out of the way of the
ambulance or WHY has, IMHO, a rather higher priority than traffic law.

> I would love to have Blues on my vehicle to aid me there quicker,
> than the 30 mins it takes me to get there. But the bottom line is
> when driven correctly, Blues and Twos, only warn others of the
> urgency of your journey. Driving within the law on B&T's only takes
> a few minutes off your journey time.


I suspect that depends rather a lot on the prevailing traffic
conditions. I live out in the sticks, it's 20+miles and 40 mins to the
nearest large town if I drive flat out, or 45 if I just bowl along the
open country roads. I suspect having B&Ts would make much more
difference if that was 20+ miles of urban/city traffic.

> But a MR Landrover Ambulance or a car with magnetic sign driven
> badly once ruins all the work you, may, have put in to get those
> lights or sign. Drive under normal road conditions, turn up safe and
> turn up to do the job in hand.


Very good points.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
In news:[email protected],
Dave Liquorice <[email protected]> blithered:
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 00:08:52 +0100, Dave H wrote:
>
>>> a) How many of the great unwashed know what a flashing green light
>>> means?

>>
>> How many know not to panic when they see blues.

>
> Or even know what a blue light means. I've witnessed several times a
> car stopped at traffic lights, with an ambulance or fire engine right
> behind it with B&T's going, did the car move nope. It sat there until
> the lights changed... OK techincally the car would have jumped the red
> light but proceeding with caution and getting out of the way of the
> ambulance or WHY has, IMHO, a rather higher priority than traffic law.


I think the law such as it is requires the lead vehicle to pull over and come to a
stop. Staitionary at traffic lights complies. The emergency vehicles have a let to
go wrong way around the lights, unlike this regular motorist.


>
>> I would love to have Blues on my vehicle to aid me there quicker,
>> than the 30 mins it takes me to get there. But the bottom line is
>> when driven correctly, Blues and Twos, only warn others of the
>> urgency of your journey. Driving within the law on B&T's only takes
>> a few minutes off your journey time.

>
> I suspect that depends rather a lot on the prevailing traffic
> conditions. I live out in the sticks, it's 20+miles and 40 mins to the
> nearest large town if I drive flat out, or 45 if I just bowl along the
> open country roads. I suspect having B&Ts would make much more
> difference if that was 20+ miles of urban/city traffic.
>
>> But a MR Landrover Ambulance or a car with magnetic sign driven
>> badly once ruins all the work you, may, have put in to get those
>> lights or sign. Drive under normal road conditions, turn up safe and
>> turn up to do the job in hand.

>
> Very good points.




--
"She who says it cannot be done should not interrupt him doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!


 

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