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Question Basic Recovery Kit

Discussion in 'General Land Rover Forum' started by PeteE, Aug 26, 2013.

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  1. PeteE

    PeteE New Member

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    The above quote was made in another thread and rather than hijack it, I thought I start a new one..

    I carry a couple of short strops to act as a bridle, plus a longer, heavier one as a main..I've only ever had to use them a couple of times to recover folks stuck in the snow this last winter so its only been light duty use..

    So are strops really that bad for heavy duty off road recovery's? Will need to upgrade all my recovery stuff when I get the Defender after Xmas, and don't want to buy inferior kit out of ignorance..

    Regards,

    Peter
     
  2. suew

    suew Well-Known Member

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  3. PeteE

    PeteE New Member

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    Sue,

    I did read that account and thats what got me thinking..Do we have any idea of the breaking strain of the two strops that failed?

    I would have thought a 12 000lb strop is going to be as good as a 12000lb rope, but I suspect I'm missing something..

    It maybe just a lot cheaper to get a super heavy duty rope compared to a similarly rated strop?

    Regards,

    Peter
     
  4. suew

    suew Well-Known Member

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    The ones Tim had were supposed to be 10tonnes, mine were rated higher and certain look thicker.

    I also bought them from a 4x4 place so they were certainly designed for the job, Tims were from the French army I think.

    I suppose a strap about 4 times as long as my long one would have been OK. Dont remember being offered one of those though.
     
  5. DiscoPol

    DiscoPol Well-Known Member

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    this weekend just gone i was deep in the mucky stuff and stuck so a mate backed up his enormous UAZ and prepped to pull me out, now i had a strop on the bonnet from an earlier winch episode so out of laziness i told him to use that.
    He did and promptly snapped of my front recovery eye on my HD bumper with a particularly hefty tug, there is no give in a strop and all the force is delivered in one very sharp and very sudden jolt, i then got the kinetic out and the same car backed up and hooked up to the other front recovery eyeof my disco, he was backed up tight to the front bumper on mine and so had about a 8 meter run to build speed and momentum(it was very slippy) but when the strain was taken by the kinetic i was, relatively, gently popped out of the sticky stuff.

    I will never use another strop again for recoveries unless it is the final resort, from now on they are tree savers and flat road towing bridles only.
     
  6. suew

    suew Well-Known Member

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    Why dont you put your name down for the recovery training day. I am hoping we will learn all this stuff there
     
  7. DiscoPol

    DiscoPol Well-Known Member

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    who me:confused::confused::confused: the commute is a killer;)
     
  8. suew

    suew Well-Known Member

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    :p:p:D:D:D:D:D:D
     
  9. wickford90

    wickford90 Well-Known Member

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    Strops and kinetic rope are used differently, you would not do a snatch recovery with a strop, that's what kinetic ropes are for.
     
  10. jai_landrover

    jai_landrover Well-Known Member

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    A strop has No or very little give its made for lifting or winching it can be used when towing if you take up the slack and then drive once the strop is taught. This will work if a vehicle is semi stuck and needs a little helping hand. The same thing is true of a wire rope or even towing chains. Nobody here would suggest you go and buy either of these to be used for recovery but many advise you buy a strop. Why I do not know, lack of knowledge maybe. A rope will work as above (except winching) you can get rope taught and drive off for when the vehicle stuck needs a little help.

    A strop is cheap. its light it needs little maintainance and handy! I have plenty. What they are terrible at and what alot of people do with them is try to recover more stuck motors with a little run up. This puts 100's of tonnes instant force on all towing points, shackels, drivers passengers backs instantly. It usually results in ripped off towing points (Even rated ones) bad backs and stupid forces instantly usually ripping the sticting in the eyes out of the cheap strops.

    There is always an exception...........Procomp do a semi kenetic strop which is good but my money is on a good old fashioned nylon rope like these:

    TRADLINE ROPE & FENDERS - 4x4, OFF ROAD & RECOVERY
    (first link I came to)

    I have had one of these and it has been abused and abused many many times in 10 years. I did buy a new one as it was lent to somone and it came back damaged as they only had cheap strops. Lesson learnt!


    This rope you can use the weight of the towing motor to help get things that are really stuck moving Simple! also as before take up the strain and drive off. it has some give and will not put instant forces on your backs nor the vehicles recovery points nor equipment.

    Lots of recovery people use strops but they usually use large winches on trucks and or recover things as described take up slack and drive off. This is sometimes not practical when something is really really stuck. Where a strop will take many back jarr ing pulls a single pull with a rope can be way more effective.

    Take for example team recovery a race to complete 3 impossible hill climbs 2 motors using only rated ropes.

    ALRC National trials 2011 Team Recovery - YouTube

    I forget how many times people turn up at the offroad club with their rated strop to be laughed at by the scruteneer. Strop for winching or gentle tug. Rope for recovery Simples.
     
  11. PeteE

    PeteE New Member

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    Thats a bit worrying, as I think my main strop is one of those ex French Army ones..will definitely have to upgrade..
     
  12. suew

    suew Well-Known Member

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    And just to clarify I didn't put a sudden strain on them. I was in reverse low box and taking up the slack very very slowly, so no sudden jerk to break them. I couldn't have done it any slower, they just snapped as Tims landy started to move, both times
     
  13. jai_landrover

    jai_landrover Well-Known Member

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    there is usually no need for a kenetic rope. a normal rope will do 99% of the jobs. a kenetic can be invaluable if you need it. I have pulled spydermans 88 inch through 15 meters of bottomless bog over his bonnet using a std rope my 90 had chains on all 4 wheels and the rear end was locked up it took about 20 go's but it did it well using the weight of my motor. Nowdays everyman and his dog have winches so they usually resort (Far too quickly IMO) to using that after putting on their flashing beacons, winch sail important bright yellow jacket and refer to their "triaing course they did once" when a rope and someone who knows how to use it would have taken 2 minutes job done.

    No offence but you really cannot beat joining a club weather its the AWDC, ALRC recoggnised or other uk clubs and getting your hands dirty. When you realise the Bull given on some forums about suspension lifts, hd this and that recovery gear and indeed things you NEED for your motor the £20 joining fee per year will pay itself back in knowledge after one event.

    I marshalled the ALRC nationals this years Team Recovery, I and another LZ member have recovered 2 fire engines in the snow countless Arctics and trailers and many events its been used and abused using these 24mm ropes they are tried and tested a cheap old strop is worthless in 90% of the time when things are really stuck.

    The longest I have been towed was by my old man in his disco towing me in my 90 with a broken gearbox some 40 odd miles using my trusty 8 meter rope from Stansted M11 slip road to Luton Bedfordshire. My £50 rope has earned its keep over the years (Ask Ryder) aswell as countless comps. A rope is the way forward look after it and you will be repaid 10 fold when you most need it.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. PeteE

    PeteE New Member

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    Thanks for the detailed explanation ..Just to be clear, the link above shows kinetic and non kinetic ropes..Are you saying you prefer non kinetic because it still has a little give?

    Or you suggesting kinetic ropes are better for dragging vehicles out? I have used kinetic ropes previously in the Army, and they can be a little scary to say the least

    Edited to say thanks for the clarification in the previous reply..looks like we were typing at the same time!
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2013
  15. jai_landrover

    jai_landrover Well-Known Member

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    EDIT Not a criticism at all just something to think about the last thing you want is to break your motor.

    Maybe unlucky to break.

    Somthing just for you to ponder for out next time. Reverse gear is the weakest gear in your gearbox. Usually a straight cut gear and very small and weak. Not too much of a problem here where your surrounded by nice people but if your somewhere remote say Gardez 100 clicks south of Kabul and you break your gearbox helping somone else you now have 2 stuck motors to sortout. Also forward gears means more gear choices somtimes you need that extra bit of oomph which when coupled to a manual gearbox can work wonders with a rope.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2013
  16. suew

    suew Well-Known Member

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    Good point, but at the time I didn't know that, Zip told me when he reversed in to get Tim out.

    This is why I want to do the recovery course :eek::eek::eek:

    Although to be fair I never expected to have to do it. Before I was with people who know what they are doing. I didn't realise neither Tim nor I did and we didn't intend to go anywhere we were likely to get stuck. Tim had his little boy with us.
     
  17. PeteE

    PeteE New Member

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    Jai,

    Thanks again for the imput..In Sue's situation where more than one rope or strop is required, would it be ok to extend a ropes reach with strops if thats all whats on hand? I assume the rope would still act as a "damper" for the pull?

    Also, what are the best recover points on a Defender and what sort of wait should they be rated for? A guy I know uses Jate Rings that look like they go through the front rails of the chassis..Are they better than the aftermaket eyes that are welded to the bumper?

    Thanks,

    Peter
     
  18. jai_landrover

    jai_landrover Well-Known Member

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    Joining ropes well we have done it many times usually loop through the loop and a piece if branch to stop them rolling and becoming tight helps. My old man uses a 4 inch length of broom handle and a bungee contraption so we can easily undo the ropes. Remember anything you add here is potential weight being flung into the back of the towing motors or the towed motor. No problem joining a rope and strops but inspect strops many get damages easily and now if it breaks the energy in the rope will fling it one way or the other.

    I prefer jate rings a pair can be very handy on the front they are again tried and tested. Rear a properly fitted towball is more than adaquate.

    A strop bridal will also help to spread the load also some situations (a greenlane recovery we did we needed to pull one side around using one side can help to keep the towing motor straight or pull one side or wheel down to gain grip to help.
     
  19. suew

    suew Well-Known Member

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    Everyone on here told me I had to get Jate rings before I went laning. They even fitted them for me on the Derbyshire trip before we set off
     
  20. jai_landrover

    jai_landrover Well-Known Member

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    Damn fine advice¬!
     
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