Freelander 1 Power Issues TD4 - with iCarsoft Data

Hello All,

Hope this finds you well,

So, I have been suffering from a lack of power under at 2,000 RPM, its now gotten
to the point that she stalls on a uphill off road start and first is the only gear I can use to get up any hill on tarmac, I look after 3 gardens all of which I need 4x4 to access and work.

After replacing / testings Turbo solonoid, silcone hoses added, Mass air Filter, fuel filter, local garage didn't know, so, I gave in and took it into the Land Rover garage nearest to me (South East France).

Today they came back to me, now because of social distancing measures in France, all exchanges
had to be made over the phone, and my translation is not great, but they said the "Turbo Compressor" (which is a direct translation) was failing and they also found leaks in the fuel lines.

Now, not being 100% sure on the mechanics here, but I am right assuming by "Turbo Compressor" they mean the high pressure pump ???? given the issues I am experiencing (regular fuel pump is good)

And now for the best part, they want €3,500 for parts and labour, even for France, even for main dealer
hourly rates, this is bonkers, they tell me the turbo it self is fine. I am waiting for a "devis" (quotation) from them which I hope will give me part numbers & costs, I can then go away and source parts myself and install with the help of a very friendly local garage.

I have a TD4 2006

Any insight from the more technically minded among you would be greatly received,

Thank you

Jack

Sounds like the low pressure fuel supply system to me.

You really need to got the live engine data when running, to find out more.

€3500 is a **** take. They don't know whats wrong and probably don't want the work. Changing a turbo is a 4 hour job, and a brand new factory turbo is under £800.

I suspect it's not the turbo though .

But more complex electronic diagnosis is needed to find out what is wrong.

Thank you for the reply,

Given what has been changed and check, I did think it might be the ECU (?)

Yep, 3,500 did feel like a "well, this is going to be a pain, lets scare him off to another garage"

the search continues, current lock down measures mean this is all terrible timing - but no doubt I'll get there,
Ill past the fix as and when.

I'm watching & waiting to see what might be your problem? Might you have any idea what Fault Codes you may have?
That would be awfully helpful in locating/diagnosing the problem you're having.
I, and many others, use an iCarsoft i930 diagnostic reader. It will inform you of fuel pressures, etc.
It's a thought, and also a lot cheaper than what the croaking-Frogs are quoting.
That, my friend, is a rip-off. And as Nodge68 says, they're in the dark - and I fully agree.
Hey, they built the 'Maginot Line', which says it all about them. lol

So I continue looking for answers, but now I have data.

At the moment, I am running the car with the Mass air Filter unplugged, the bought a brand new replacement bosch but once plugged in car is pretty much in limp mode.
Unplugged, she has been fine, a little rough on cold stars but I am putting that down to the -7c temperatures at night, and of course she is also a little thirsty, but given diesel prices in France mpg is about the same, but then 2 weeks ago, I noticed that if I held her a 1800 RPM, she would have these very quick, jolts, loose power but then almost instantly over compensate.

below are number from this morning, I have no idea what they mean, but hoping someone can tell me.

Cololant Temp 61.55c
Inlet Air Temp -40.05c
Air Flow 622.50 mg/str
Manifold Pressure 99.20 kPa
Low Pressure Supply 357.60
High Pressure Rail 61411.80
Fuel Pressure Regulator Current 1.3
Pedal 1 Demand 1.46%
Pedal 2 Demand
Sensor Supply 1 5.01V
Sensor 4.99V

And the only error codes I am getting is P0100 Air Flow Meter & P0110 Intake air Temp sensor - which makes sense given the mass air filter is unplugged right ?

Hope some one can point in the right direction

Thank you

suddons said:

Cololant Temp 61.55c
Inlet Air Temp -40.05c
Air Flow 622.50 mg/str
Manifold Pressure 99.20 kPa
Low Pressure Supply 357.60
High Pressure Rail 61411.80
Fuel Pressure Regulator Current 1.3
Pedal 1 Demand 1.46%
Pedal 2 Demand
Sensor Supply 1 5.01V
Sensor 4.99V

Click to expand...

What RPM was this read taken at? If it's at idle, the then figure for the high pressure rail is too high. The engine also wasn't at running temperature.
The MAP figure is a bit low too, so it could be blocked.

suddons said:

And the only error codes I am getting is P0100 Air Flow Meter & P0110 Intake air Temp sensor - which makes sense given the mass air filter is unplugged right ?

Click to expand...

The intake temperature error is because the MAF is unplugged, the EDC simply substitutes the missing reading with -40°C, and sets the air mass at 622.5 mgl, as that's the theoretical maximum for this size engine.

The rest looks ok.

Thank you for the quick reply Nodge!

Above reading where taken while driving, with a few steep hills, impossible to avoid where I am, numbers below while idle below (after a trip to the shops) allot of N/As this is normal ?

Cololant Temp 63.85
Inlet Air Temp N/A
Air Flow 517.60 mg/str
Manifold Pressure 95.80 kPa
Low Pressure Supply 367.50
High Pressure Rail N/A
Fuel Pressure Regulator Current N/ A
Pedal 1 Demand N/A
Pedal 2 Demand
Sensor Supply 1 5.01V
Sensor 4.99V

The MAP figure is a bit low too - Good to know! I'll look into that

The engine also wasn't at running temperature. What could this be?

The intake temperature error is because the MAF is unplugged, the EDC simply substitutes the missing reading with -40°C, and sets the air mass at 622.5 mgl, as that's the theoretical maximum for this size engine. Good to know - THANK YOU !

Definitely engine temp needs looking at. It should be 85-95 depending on the the thermostat. (Pain to change)

I would also check the vacuum lines. If I remember correctly, the vacuum pump is connected to EGR & Brake Servo, plus a reservoir that holds vacuum for the turbo actuator. Any leaks will impact the turbo.

Did you check for oil contamination in the air ducts to & from the intercooler ? If the turbo is starting to fail, you will probably have lots of oil in the pipes, even if there' no smoke yet from the exhaust.

So from thise fingers, I can see the engine temperature is 25°C too low, so the thermostat has stuck open, which is really common. Most people put a Renault 4/5 thermostat in the top radiator hose, which make the engine run a the more correct 88°C.

The MAP should always read above 100kpa, as that's normal air pressure, so something is amiss there. Check for a blocked sensor or a blockage in the boost hoses, intake manifold or intercooler, or even a badly clogged air filter.

You could also have corrosion on the rail sensor, as it's showing N/A, which isn't correct. Corrosion on the rail sensor is quite common, due to a faulty harness, for which there's an overly replacement available.

Amazing Knowledge from you both - Thank you.

I'll start with the Renault thermostat mod and checking for blockages in the MAP etc.

I did replace the harness, a while ago, but again something to double check,

So in theory if the above are corrected then the Mass Air Filter should work plugged in ?

will update this thread as a when for any one having the same issues.

Thank you again!!!

Just to double check: https://www.auto-doc.fr/gates/12382...KtXbC-AQykSoipQkLErg8r4wTo7-wKYYaAncEEALw_wcB

suddons said:

Just to double check: https://www.auto-doc.fr/gates/12382...KtXbC-AQykSoipQkLErg8r4wTo7-wKYYaAncEEALw_wcB

Click to expand...

That's the thermostat.

There are many threads on here about fitting those.

Nodge68 said:

That's the thermostat.

There are many threads on here about fitting those.

Click to expand...

Ordered!

pwood999 said:

Definitely engine temp needs looking at. It should be 85-95 depending on the the thermostat. (Pain to change)

I would also check the vacuum lines. If I remember correctly, the vacuum pump is connected to EGR & Brake Servo, plus a reservoir that holds vacuum for the turbo actuator. Any leaks will impact the turbo.

Did you check for oil contamination in the air ducts to & from the intercooler ? If the turbo is starting to fail, you will probably have lots of oil in the pipes, even if there' no smoke yet from the exhaust.

Click to expand...

Hey PW - I did have the Turbo replaced (with a new one) 4 months ago, so I'll hope she should be good, but I check ducts etc. for oil. Thank you

Don't worry yourself too much if there is oil in the turbo / ducting as this engine has a mongo design feature whereby the crankcase breather in the rocker cover drops it's sludge out of a pipe from the rocker cover under the bottom of the airbox (air filter housing), this pipe then joins to a ~30mm diameter hose that plugs into the air inlet pipework feeding to the turbo. This means that anything that comes past the crankcase vent will get sucked into the turbo and blown around all the boost pipework, the intercooler and inlet manifold. As such oil in the turbo and or ducting may not necessarily be coming from your turbo itself, but originate from the crankcase breather and being blown about by the turbo.

Jayridium said:

As such oil in the turbo and or ducting may not necessarily be coming from your turbo itself, but originate from the crankcase breather and being blown about by the turbo.

Click to expand...

This oil serves to lubricate the intake valves, so not completely pointless.

Nodge68 said:

This oil serves to lubricate the intake valves, so not completely pointless.

Click to expand...

I hadn't thought of that, I had presumed it's sole purpose was to be the binding liquid component of the black sludge these engines build up in their intake system and slowly choke themselves with.

Jayridium said:

I hadn't thought of that, I had presumed it's sole purpose was to be the binding liquid component of the black sludge these engines build up in their intake system and slowly choke themselves with.

Click to expand...

The black death is caused by the EGR, burning the oil mist in the manifold.
If the EGR wasn't fitted, then the oil would lubricate the intake valves better.