Peaks .. Air Ambulance charity Bakewell run ...

Went laning in the Peak District yesterday, Hollinsclough both ways, almost, Roych Clough and quite a few others, had a great day, but something came to me as we were driving round.

The Peaks is quite a small area with lots of lanes, not many of which are especially long, so loads of Land rovers at once in this particular area is very likely to be 'noticed' .. especially in such a politically sensitive (for 4x4's) climate. Some of the best lanes are currently TRO'd, or possibly about to be and I reckon the added load of an 'extra' 50+ Land rovers on one day might not be a good idea, or might even be the straw that finally breaks the camels back and gets us a whole load of TRO's and/or complete closures of some cracking lanes.

Only trying to be Devils Advocate, I'll still help and try to make it a great run, after all, green lanes are essentially little used open roads so it _is_ our right to drive them as often, with as many people, as we like. We know there are voluntary codes of conduct and we know that most 4x4 drivers take note of them (as mentioned by Derbyshire CC) but that's not how bobbles see us!

I wonder if we might be better having a meet at some Pay 'n Play site, with a few green lane excursions as appropriate for those that don't particularly like PnP's.

I think it's worth debating the issue before we get too far further down the road of planning etc 'cos I'm damn sure that some of 'the bobbles' will already be reading the forum and maybe planning a counter to it! We are a pretty open forum after all ..

Just a thought for discussion ... I'll still be at the meeting on Saturday Craig!!

I was under the impression - and documentation from the Peak District people suggests that it is preferred that Hollingsclough is only done in one direction, probably not a great one to do backwards in a group of 50 as that really will just **** off the locals. (I might be wrong on this, although, i would imagine a lot of vehciles would need to use a winch to do them backwards, any lane which requires a winch on is not really ideal for driving and should probably have a TRO so it can recover or be worked on)

The locals record reg. numbers of all people using the lanes round Hollingsclough now (They sit up on the hill and use binoculars - they use a CB channel to chat on so you can scan and listen in, however, i'm fairly sure they're also scanning and listening in on us)

It is, however, a cracking lane, sadly i expect they'll try and close it soon as they are with all the other good ones round Derbyshire

I can really see your concerns, I think if 50+ people are to descend on the Derbyshire lanes it needs to be corrdinated with the Peak Distrcit green laning chap and maybe even the local police. If the organiser wants the details for the Peak Distrcit green laning chap let me know, i've got his contact details.
I think to not do so would be irrisponsible as a group and only help the locals get all the lanes closed and ruin it for everyone else.

Nope, the only thing about Hollinsclough is as follows ..

"Anti-Social Behaviour at Hollinsclough
We are concerned to hear that the anti-social behaviour of a small number of
4x4 drivers is causing issues for residents at Hollinsclough.
The lanes, shown on the plan below, have been regularly driven
recklessly and at high speed, and such behaviour is not only alienating local
people but costing valuable police time.
Whilst the lanes are available at all times, we are concerned that the
village is being deliberately targeted by anti-social behaviour and we are sure
that all members of the recreational vehicle community share our wish that
this activity ceases now. Anti-social and dangerous driving can only make the
issues faced by those who wish to find balanced solutions more difficult.
We would be grateful if all responsible drivers would spread the word about
this behaviour and ask for it to cease immediately. People with further
information should contact Staffordshire Police in confidence on 101 when
calling from Staffordshire, 0300 123 4455 from outside the county."

I'd love to know how they can be driven at high-speed .. but if they can, I'd like a go in the vehicle that can do it!!

Fair enough, well, they're definetly vehicle logging as we witnessed that a few weeks ago and that's documented in the PDF the Peak Distrcit people produced at the start of the year.

Still, from the video i've seen on FB it looked like it required a winch to get up it backwards...

I think it would be a worthwhile exercise to contact the local cops....

" People with further information should contact Staffordshire Police in confidence on 101 when calling from Staffordshire, 0300 123 4455 from outside the county."

and notify them of our intent. I believe the law states that 12+ vehicles has to do so anyway. It certainly wouldnt be a bad idea to get them on side before hand. Ok it might be possible that they decide we cant, but better to be seen as responsible as that would kill any opposition if the cops were aware??

The Mad Hat Man said:

I think it would be a worthwhile exercise to contact the local cops....

" People with further information should contact Staffordshire Police in confidence on 101 when calling from Staffordshire, 0300 123 4455 from outside the county."

and notify them of our intent. I believe the law states that 12+ vehicles has to do so anyway. It certainly wouldnt be a bad idea to get them on side before hand. Ok it might be possible that they decide we cant, but better to be seen as responsible as that would kill any opposition if the cops were aware??

Click to expand...

That's why I wanted the debate beforehand. If we can show we're trying to do it within and with the guidance of the law, there's very little that anyone can say against it!

Bump said:

Fair enough, well, they're definetly vehicle logging as we witnessed that a few weeks ago and that's documented in the PDF the Peak Distrcit people produced at the start of the year.

Still, from the video i've seen on FB it looked like it required a winch to get up it backwards...

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We didn't see anyone logging either, to be honest! Was it my video you saw, Rick winching up? David and Rick winched over the step, I got up and almost over it but don't have a winch on yet so backed out!

The particular law??? that might affect us would be this....

"Public Order Act 1986"

which states that....
"11 Advance notice of public processions.E+W.(1)Written notice shall be given in accordance with this section of any proposal to hold a public procession intended— .
(a)to demonstrate support for or opposition to the views or actions of any person or body of persons, .
(b)to publicise a cause or campaign, or .
(c)to mark or commemorate an event, .
unless it is not reasonably practicable to give any advance notice of the procession.
(2)Subsection (1) does not apply where the procession is one commonly or customarily held in the police area (or areas) in which it is proposed to be held or is a funeral procession organised by a funeral director acting in the normal course of his business. .
(3)The notice must specify the date when it is intended to hold the procession, the time when it is intended to start it, its proposed route, and the name and address of the person (or of one of the persons) proposing to organise it. .
(4)Notice must be delivered to a police station— .
(a)in the police area in which it is proposed the procession will start, or .
(b)where it is proposed the procession will start in Scotland and cross into England, in the first police area in England on the proposed route. .
(5)If delivered not less than 6 clear days before the date when the procession is intended to be held, the notice may be delivered by post by the recorded delivery service; but section 7 of the M1Interpretation Act 1978 (under which a document sent by post is deemed to have been served when posted and to have been delivered in the ordinary course of post) does not apply. .
(6)If not delivered in accordance with subsection (5), the notice must be delivered by hand not less than 6 clear days before the date when the procession is intended to be held or, if that is not reasonably practicable, as soon as delivery is reasonably practicable. .
(7)Where a public procession is held, each of the persons organising it is guilty of an offence if— .
(a)the requirements of this section as to notice have not been satisfied, or .
(b)the date when it is held, the time when it starts, or its route, differs from the date, time or route specified in the notice. .
(8)It is a defence for the accused to prove that he did not know of, and neither suspected nor had reason to suspect, the failure to satisfy the requirements or (as the case may be) the difference of date, time or route. .
(9)To the extent that an alleged offence turns on a difference of date, time or route, it is a defence for the accused to prove that the difference arose from circumstances beyond his control or from something done with the agreement of a police officer or by his direction. .
(10)A person guilty of an offence under subsection (7) is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale."


The interpretation of which is for "the attending officer" .

thats a very good point you have paul, its a good idea to raise the point before it becomes an issue.

contacting the derbyshire row officer and police will have to be done see what their views on the trip are. then a decision could be made from their response?

Paul D said:

We didn't see anyone logging either, to be honest! Was it my video you saw, Rick winching up? David and Rick winched over the step, I got up and almost over it but don't have a winch on yet so backed out!

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that's the one


The "good green laning code" says groups of 6 are best for laning and it seems to be what most groups abide to where possible. With 50 odd vehicles it could mean a lot of staggered starting and potential bottle necks when people hit tricky parts - i guess doing a figure of 8 route with half going one way and half the other, meeting in the middle for lunch might work?

Definetly think the police need to be involved though. I did a night laning rally thing over in Wales which the police were informed about and were very helpful - well from what i saw as a participant.

It would, of course, mean that if there was any bovver, we could call on the police to intercede .

Providing we took their advice .

craigyb said:

thats a very good point you have paul, its a good idea to raise the point before it becomes an issue.

contacting the derbyshire row officer and police will have to be done see what their views on the trip are. then a decision could be made from their response?

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Agree. Worth an intial email to say "this is what we're thinking, any comments at this stage"

Do you need the Peak's ROI contact details?

Glad you see it that way Craigyb, I wasn't wanting to get up your back or anything.

So, as I brought it up I'll follow up Derby and Staffs ROW officers, some of the lanes are Staffs too, and police and just see what happens.

No need for too many details for them yet, we'll see what their response is first, and hopefully I'll have a reply by Saturday!

Bump said:

Agree. Worth an intial email to say "this is what we're thinking, any comments at this stage"

Do you need the Peak's ROI contact details?

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No, already have them thanks. I'm close to the Peaks so keep in regular contact anyway ..

If it all goes a bit tits up then it would still be nice to have an LZ meet for the social craic. Know it's not as good as combining it with laning but it's still a good day out/ night in it's own right

Paul D said:

Glad you see it that way Craigyb, I wasn't wanting to get up your back or anything.

So, as I brought it up I'll follow up Derby and Staffs ROW officers, some of the lanes are Staffs too, and police and just see what happens.

No need for too many details for them yet, we'll see what their response is first, and hopefully I'll have a reply by Saturday!

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im glad you've brought it up

worst they can say is no, but as already said can only help us trying to do things correctly.

Sent a mail to Peaks Officer, asking for advice and whether there is anything we need to do to let them, or police, know in advance. I've copied the mail to Police and council rowo's of Derbys and Staffs .. Tried to make it sound a 'done deal' but we want you on our side, rather than a 'can we do it please mister?' ...

110Woman, it'll still go ahead somehow ..

Too many cakes to miss for it not to ..

Sensible decision Paul, we have to be 100% squeaky clean on this given the size of the group - the bobblers will pick up on anything we miss and use it to create bad press

If we are going by the book at least we can avoid any comeback later on, or any pain if we need to change plans before we get too close to the date.

nice one paul you put it better than i would of after our chat yesterday

never been to a pay and play before, and i think i did mention once or twice that the thread should be closed after lots of peeps put there names down... but was told the organiser knew what he was doin.

I dont mind what I do as long as its not anywhere else from the original location.