P38 EAS problem (Please don't shout; I've done a search)

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S

Seven Lucky Logs

New Member
Posts
41
Location
Leafy Cheshire
Ok,

Friday last I hooked up the muck trailer to go and empty it. Halfway down the drive I hear the jockey wheel scraping along - "Bugger, the jockey wheel clamp has loosened" I said to myself. Jumped out and immediately noticed the back right corner is well down. Whilst I watch, the other three corners lower to the level of the back right. Unhook the trailer and drive (across the lawn (don't tell)) back to the house, Jump out and close the door. All four corners rise back to normal ride height....then back right starts to drop. Leaning down I can hear a "whoosh" of air coming from the wheelwell. Log onto LandyZone, search the issue and come to the conclusion that I have a knackered air spring. Log onto the good folks at Island and order said air spring. It arrived today. Spent this afternoon changing said air spring. Started the big girl up and "whoosh" went the air in the back right wheelwell. Jacked her up again, released the air hose from the spring and, only then, noticed a hole in the line. Ah well, the old air spring looked knackered anyway. Trimmed air hose and popped it back in. Started the big girl up and no "whoosh". Sorted? No. No ride height change at all. "Might need a few minutes to fill the reservoir" I said to myself. No, after 15 mins no change. Open bonnet and check compressor which is red hot. Gnash teeth for a while and then remove blue out line from compressor, start engine and put finger over hole on compressor. Reasonable output but if I really press hard I can block air from escaping.

So, my question (after all the bollox above) is could this situation have caused the seals in the compressor to fail? Bearing in mind on Friday it was lifting the vehicle up as quickly as usual (albeit the hole in the air hose was dropping it straight back down again).

Thanks
Tim
 
Last edited:
Seven Lucky Logs said:
Ok,

Friday last I hooked up the muck trailer to go and empty it. Halfway down the drive I hear the jockey wheel scraping along - "Bugger, the jockey wheel clamp has loosened" I said to myself. Jumped out and immediately noticed the back right corner is well down. Whilst I watch, the other three corners lower to the level of the back right. Unhook the trailer and drive (across the lawn (don't tell)) back to the house, Jump out and close the door. All four corners rise back to normal ride height....then back right starts to drop. Leaning down I can hear a "whoosh" of air coming from the wheelwell. Log onto LandyZone, search the issue and come to the conclusion that I have a knackered air spring. Log onto the good folks at Island and order said air spring. It arrived today. Spent this afternoon changing said air spring. Started the big girl up and "whoosh" went the air in the back right wheelwell. Jacked her up again, released the air hose from the spring and, only then, noticed a hole in the line. Ah well, the old air spring looked knackered anyway. Trimmed air hose and popped it back in. Started the big girl up and no "whoosh". Sorted? No. No ride height change at all. "Might need a few minutes to fill the reservoir" I said to myself. No, after 15 mins no change. Open bonnet and check compressor which is red hot. Gnash teeth for a while and then remove blue out line from compressor, start engine and put finger over hole on compressor. Reasonable output but if I really press hard I can block air from escaping.

So, my question (after all the bollox above) is could this situation have caused the seals in the compressor to fail? Bearing in mind on Friday it was lifting the vehicle up as quickly as usual (albeit the hole in the air hose was dropping it straight back down again).

Thanks
Tim
Click to expand...

Yes. Compressor knackered. New seal and cylinder. Find and seal all leaks in system or your new bits won't last long.
 
wammers said:
Yes. Compressor knackered. New seal and cylinder. Find and seal all leaks in system or your new bits won't last long.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Wammers. I'm pretty sure the system has no more leaks as it was working perfectly until Friday. Any advice on the best place to get the cylinder and seal?

Thanks
Tim
 
Never a good idea to just change one airspring, as a minimum it should be both on one axle especially as if one was knackered the rest won't be far behind. Symlise do the seals I think on Ebay.
 
Am I correct in thinking that you need to ensure the Isolator switch for ride height is pressed too? (If connected to trailer)
 
CEZ1869 said:
Am I correct in thinking that you need to ensure the Isolator switch for ride height is pressed too? (If connected to trailer)
Click to expand...

Yes, the handbook states that the suspension should be locked at normal height when towing to prevent lowering at 50mph potentially destabilising the rig.
 
Datatek said:
Yes, the handbook states that the suspension should be locked at normal height when towing to prevent lowering at 50mph potentially destabilising the rig.
Click to expand...

My wife has horses and they generate a fair amount of "waste product". Said "waste" is loaded into a trailer for Muggins (me :() to empty at a local farm twice a week. If you think I'm going to drive at 50+ mph with a ton of horse muck behind me, you are sorely mistaken! I crawl to the local farm in high ride height otherwise the jockey wheel would carve a groove in the road.
 
I always get a wee bit nervous when an EAS system doesn't work just after the car has been jacked up. Just in case you might have upset a height sensor might I suggest that you cross DATATEK's palm with a few shekels and get the EAS software and computer lead. I hope that you don't need it but . . . .



ps
A little birdie tells me that you might get RAVE on the disc as well.
 
Seven Lucky Logs said:
My wife has horses and they generate a fair amount of "waste product". Said "waste" is loaded into a trailer for Muggins (me :() to empty at a local farm twice a week. If you think I'm going to drive at 50+ mph with a ton of horse muck behind me, you are sorely mistaken! I crawl to the local farm in high ride height otherwise the jockey wheel would carve a groove in the road.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a **** job to me:rolleyes:
 
Hi Chaps,

Ok, I've fitted a new piston (with lovely new teflon seal), new cylinder, new o rings and new spongy filter in the compressor. Old teflon seal was hard and worn so obviously needed doing. Output pressure better than before but, if I really push down hard I can stop air coming from the output. Started engine and left to idle for 20 mins, no joy. So, researched a little on here - next thing checked was I removed the exhaust valve (lillte white thingy with black end caps) to see if any air was escaping. No air escaping at all so I'm presuming the diaphragm in the valve block is ok? Bit more research brings me to "reed valves". How do I access them? I can't find any diagrams on here or on Rave.

Thanks in advance
 
Seven Lucky Logs said:
Hi Chaps,

Ok, I've fitted a new piston (with lovely new teflon seal), new cylinder, new o rings and new spongy filter in the compressor. Old teflon seal was hard and worn so obviously needed doing. Output pressure better than before but, if I really push down hard I can stop air coming from the output. Started engine and left to idle for 20 mins, no joy. So, researched a little on here - next thing checked was I removed the exhaust valve (lillte white thingy with black end caps) to see if any air was escaping. No air escaping at all so I'm presuming the diaphragm in the valve block is ok? Bit more research brings me to "reed valves". How do I access them? I can't find any diagrams on here or on Rave.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

Reed valves are in the compressor head, cannot believe you changed the cylinder and seal but not check inlet and exhaust valves. Inlet reed just sits on compressor head must be flat no gap to head but slight gap at nose of support plate. Exhaust sits on an O ring. And must sit square onto it. Press a piece of silicone tube to outlet hole in head you should be able to blow into it but it should seal if you suck. If you can suck air past exhaust, reed and O ring need servicing. Compressor should make 170 + psi so you would need considerable pressure to stop flow. If it's working correctly.
 
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wammers said:
Reed valves are in the compressor head, cannot believe you changed the cylinder and seal but not check inlet and exhaust valves. Inlet reed just sits on compressor head must be flat no gap to head but slight gap at nose of support plate. Exhaust sits on an O ring. And must sit square onto it. Press a piece of silicone tube to outlet hole in head you should be able to blow into it but it should seal if you suck. If you can suck air past exhaust, reed and O ring need servicing. Compressor should make 170 + psi so you would need considerable pressure to stop flow. If it's working correctly.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the answer Wammers but I may have mistakenly used the wrong terminology; I'm fairly new to this. First, the inlet valve is the black plastic unscrewable thing on the side of the compressor, yes? I changed the spongy black filter and the white cotton wool type filter in it. Second, the exhaust valve I mentioned was the one on the valve block - I'm presuming the exhaust on the compressor is actually what the blue pipe conncts to.

So, in trying to decrypt your reply (I'm not being rude; I just don't know the terminology and I do appreciate the assistance I get on here) is the compressor head the unit that has the red silicone seal in it?

Thanks
 
Seven Lucky Logs said:
Thanks for the answer Wammers but I may have mistakenly used the wrong terminology; I'm fairly new to this. First, the inlet valve is the black plastic unscrewable thing on the side of the compressor, yes? I changed the spongy black filter and the white cotton wool type filter in it. Second, the exhaust valve I mentioned was the one on the valve block - I'm presuming the exhaust on the compressor is actually what the blue pipe conncts to.

So, in trying to decrypt your reply (I'm not being rude; I just don't know the terminology and I do appreciate the assistance I get on here) is the compressor head the unit that has the red silicone seal in it?

Thanks
Click to expand...

The bits you just referred to are the inlet air filter and the exhaust silencer:)
 
Seven Lucky Logs said:
Thanks for the answer Wammers but I may have mistakenly used the wrong terminology; I'm fairly new to this. First, the inlet valve is the black plastic unscrewable thing on the side of the compressor, yes? I changed the spongy black filter and the white cotton wool type filter in it. Second, the exhaust valve I mentioned was the one on the valve block - I'm presuming the exhaust on the compressor is actually what the blue pipe conncts to.

So, in trying to decrypt your reply (I'm not being rude; I just don't know the terminology and I do appreciate the assistance I get on here) is the compressor head the unit that has the red silicone seal in it?

Thanks
Click to expand...


You said you had read about reed valves. The only reed valves are in the compressor cylinder head. If they don't seal properly the compressor will not work efficiently. The compressor is capable of making 170 psi of air pressure you should not be able to block the outlet if you tried and the compressor was working correctly the escaping air would burn your finger. The compressor exhaust valve MUST seal against pressure or the compressor cannot build pressure in the tank. When the piston descends air is drawn in past the inlet reed valve, as the piston rises air pressure shuts this valve against compressor head. The resulting high pressure is forced past the exhaust valve. IF, the exhaust valve is not sealing properly, the air that has just been forced past it flows back into the cylinder as the piston descends, instead of a fresh batch of air being drawn through the inlet valve, which would happen if the exhaust was sealed. The compressor cannot make air pressure if either of the valves is leaking. More so the exhaust valve. Think you need to check them.
 
wammers said:
You said you had read about reed valves. The only reed valves are in the compressor cylinder head. If they don't seal properly the compressor will not work efficiently. The compressor is capable of making 170 psi of air pressure you should not be able to block the outlet if you tried and the compressor was working correctly the escaping air would burn your finger. The compressor exhaust valve MUST seal against pressure or the compressor cannot build pressure in the tank. When the piston descends air is drawn in past the inlet reed valve, as the piston rises air pressure shuts this valve against compressor head. The resulting high pressure is forced past the exhaust valve. IF, the exhaust valve is not sealing properly, the air that has just been forced past it flows back into the cylinder as the piston descends, instead of a fresh batch of air being drawn through the inlet valve, which would happen if the exhaust was sealed. The compressor cannot make air pressure if either of the valves is leaking. More so the exhaust valve. Think you need to check them.
Click to expand...

No, no, no. I said I'd done a bit more research and that had brought me to "reed valves". I'm still trying to work out what they are :confused:.

So, when the piston descends air is drawn in past the inlet reed valve means air is drawn in through the black plastic inlet filter (as it's called in Rave). Is that correct?

Now, the exhaust valve sounds like a sort of non-return valve (or should act like that if working correctly) and this is contained within the black metal part attached to the compressor above the piston. It's got a red silicone seal and two "chambers" one slightly larger than the other. Is that correct?

Any layman's terms in the answer would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
Seven Lucky Logs said:
No, no, no. I said I'd done a bit more research and that had brought me to "reed valves". I'm still trying to work out what they are :confused:.

So, when the piston descends air is drawn in past the inlet reed valve means air is drawn in through the black plastic inlet filter (as it's called in Rave). Is that correct?

Now, the exhaust valve sounds like a sort of non-return valve (or should act like that if working correctly) and this is contained within the black metal part attached to the compressor above the piston. It's got a red silicone seal and two "chambers" one slightly larger than the other. Is that correct?

Any layman's terms in the answer would be appreciated. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Air is drawn in through the inlet filter (the black plastic bit) past the inlet reed valve in the cylinder head. That is one of the two chambers you mention. The other chamber contains the exhaust reed valve. Both must seal correctly for the compressor to work properly. If you don't know what your doing get someone to do it for you who does.
 
Last edited:
wammers said:
Air is drawn in through the inlet filter (the black plastic bit) past the inlet reed valve in the cylinder head. That is in one of the two chambers you mention. The other chamber contains the exhaust reed valve. Both must seal correctly for the compressor to work properly. If you don't know what your doing get someone to do it for you who does.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply; I understand that one :).

As for the final part, if that was my attitude, I wouldn't be here in the first place. I always thought one of the reasons for the existence of these forums was to pass on knowledge not electronically shout at people for not possessing it.

Anyway, thank you again and I'll go and check whether the reed valves are working correctly or not.
Cheers
 
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