P38 Diesel Pump Change

Hi guys

Was hopeing for some advice. 1997 2.5 DSE. Ive had issues with the starting when hot for a long time. Not the norm, but it's with the pump. When the pump physically gets hot it will randomly not start. 5 gallon of cold water over the pump cools it down enough to start.
It's now time to buy a recon pump. What are they like to fit? Any one any tips? Or do I need too many timing tools etc? Cheers in advance. Tel

Wammers is your man, but you need a DTI gauge and various other special tools.
Are you sure it's the FIP? Have you had it on diagnostics? Have you checked the engine temperature sensor for the EDC?

Try the fip Temperature sensor sounds like its packed up

Hey guys. Thanks for the quick replies!!
In willing to have a go at anything! What sensor are we saying try? Anyone any idea where it is? I can pick one up tommorow if know what to ask for.

As I say by pouring cold water over the pump it then starts. It is total random as to if it starts or not. Once it fires it drives and pulls like a train. No smoke or anything. Has no other issue starting 95% time.

Boydonegood said:

Hey guys. Thanks for the quick replies!!
In willing to have a go at anything! What sensor are we saying try? Anyone any idea where it is? I can pick one up tommorow if know what to ask for.

As I say by pouring cold water over the pump it then starts. It is total random as to if it starts or not. Once it fires it drives and pulls like a train. No smoke or anything. Has no other issue starting 95% time.

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Inside the pump go to a injection Specialist it won't cost to much .

it cost me £150 to have mine fitted @£50 ph,well worth it

Lee, was yours the same symptoms? Randomly won't fire when hot, no matter what ya do. Won't even fire on Easystart. Pour 5gln cold water over pump and it will fire first time and drive as good as gold.

Just had a search on net and it looks simple enough to do myself if I can't find anyone? I removed the pump top the other week to replace gasket!! (Sods law). Am I right in thinking it is just held on with two torx. Replace this and there's a chance it could help?

Wonder if injector company will sell me the part?!!!

Tel

Boydonegood said:

Lee, was yours the same symptoms? Randomly won't fire when hot, no matter what ya do. Won't even fire on Easystart. Pour 5gln cold water over pump and it will fire first time and drive as good as gold.

Just had a search on net and it looks simple enough to do myself if I can't find anyone? I removed the pump top the other week to replace gasket!! (Sods law). Am I right in thinking it is just held on with two torx. Replace this and there's a chance it could help?

Wonder if injector company will sell me the part?!!!

Tel

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If you removed the pump top and did not get it back in exactly the right place that may be your problem. However, it should fire on easy start come what may. Is the cranking speed OK?

Here a hiw too ant bosch injection dealer will sell you the part google it .
How to replace the fuel temperature sensor and injection pump cover seal replacement on VW Audi TDI
Your better off letting them do it and retiming the pump could also be chain stretch causing an out of timed pump

I only removed the very top cover. Not the "naughty" one. It was leaking from the seal.
Crank speed is fine. And it's so random. I think year before last it did it about 15 times. Last year 3 times. And about 20 so far this year! The cooler it gets the more it tried to fire. Then when it gets cold it fired str away. But 90% of the time it will get to same temp and start just fine. Totally random!!
Once it starts it runs fine

There is a source link to fuel temp sensor in my EAS "How to".

Guys

Thanks so much for all the advice! To be honest, if a £10 item, could be the cause of all the times ive returned to the car and had to either wait 1hr for it to cool down, or sod about pouring cold water over it, i'd kick myself! But it would be a total result.
Ive not used the car for ages, as i gave it to Dad while i crossed to the darkside of Mercedes. But driving it again the weekend has made me wanna bring it home again.

210k on it, 1997 and the only issue it has, is this! Would be a total result if this went anywhere near curing it.

Cheers Wammers, just ordered! At least ill have the part if the deisel place dont.

I think its an optomistic hope that this is the cause, but fingers crossed!!

Tel

Boydonegood said:

Guys

Thanks so much for all the advice! To be honest, if a £10 item, could be the cause of all the times ive returned to the car and had to either wait 1hr for it to cool down, or sod about pouring cold water over it, i'd kick myself! But it would be a total result.
Ive not used the car for ages, as i gave it to Dad while i crossed to the darkside of Mercedes. But driving it again the weekend has made me wanna bring it home again.

210k on it, 1997 and the only issue it has, is this! Would be a total result if this went anywhere near curing it.

Cheers Wammers, just ordered! At least ill have the part if the deisel place dont.

I think its an optomistic hope that this is the cause, but fingers crossed!!

Tel

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It may solve your problem or at least help. But at 210K the pump and injectors will be tired.

Yeah, i agree.

Its got to the point where the cars worth nothing, but is still imaculate and it is genuinely the only issue the car has.
At £20 its worth a go. If im looking at £500 for a recon pump and fit then its not really practical.

Would be nice if it done it all or never. But does it proberly 5% of the times. Is becoming an issue for parents (they borrowing the car) as they scared to turn it off "incase" it doesnt start again.

The other 95% of the time, id trust it to go round the world and stop start every time!

fuel temp sensor - bosch PN# "2 464 509 015-001" (note - the fuel temp sensor is the same for all 1996-2003 diesels)

injection pump top cover seal - bosch PN# "2 461 015 008-000"

First clean the area around the injection pump cover. You don't want debris entering the sensitive area of the injection pump. Make sure the engine bay is cold and have a fire extinguisher in your workspace. Make sure all combustible fumes are exhausted from the area and do not introduce any ignition sources or sparks while working on the fuel system. I also suggest wearing gloves to keep diesel fuel off your hands.

Wad some paper towels behind the injection pump. The pump is tilted forward so quite a bit of fuel will spill out. At least 5-6 paper towels are required to catch the fuel. Remove the injector fuel return line and wrap with a paper towel to catch any spilled fuel.

Remove the 3x T20 bolts and 1x triangle security bolt with the triangle socket circled below. The injection pump cover should come off easily, be prepared for some fuel to spill out. You don't want the fuel on the coolant lines or any other rubber hoses so make sure the paper towels are stuffed behind the pump!



Unscrew the fuel temp sensor (T10 x 2 screws) and replace. It's the black thermistor, the thing that looks like it's holding a pill. I don't know the exact torque for the T10 screws, but 3-4 lbs should be more than enough, the T10 screws are very small and LIGHT hand tight is more than enough force. Any more and you will strip the torx head. The heads are pretty shallow. The sensor will only fit well one way, the numbers should face up.



You can also check the resistance of the fuel temp sensor and compare it to the old sensor. It should be about 1300-1800 ohms at room temperature. With the ignition on, one side gets about 5V and goes to the ecu, the other side is ground. Also inspect for unusual wear or dirt in the injection pump area. It should be very clean with no visible wear. Inspect for bubbles or specks in the electronics and plastic - there should be none.

In my case, the bad sensor was related to an electrical short on the wiring harness. Carefully inspect the wiring harness for shorts, cracks, or rubbing. A bad sensor could also be related to water in the fuel.


If you decided to damage the triangle head bolt by hammering a 7mm socket onto it to remove it, here are some specs on the bolts

Thanks so much guys!!

Thanks for the instructions Johnny! Have just got email from first place i ordered from out of stocking item.. Managed to order one from Bosch £12

I appreciate what ya say Grit about the timing, but sooo tempted just to drop it in myself. Just see if it helps at all!

Boydonegood said:

Yeah, i agree.

Its got to the point where the cars worth nothing, but is still imaculate and it is genuinely the only issue the car has.
At £20 its worth a go. If im looking at £500 for a recon pump and fit then its not really practical.

Would be nice if it done it all or never. But does it proberly 5% of the times. Is becoming an issue for parents (they borrowing the car) as they scared to turn it off "incase" it doesnt start again.

The other 95% of the time, id trust it to go round the world and stop start every time!

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Your not going to get another decent car for )500 quid the pump and box are the most expensive items on the car to fix )500 for a pump is peanuts if needed

Cheers so much guys

All fitted last night.. 20 mins!

Fingers crossed it will go someway to curing it!

Thanks again for everyones help.

Tel

Another happy Customer, glad it was a cheap fix .

Spoke too soon!!!

Presently sat in Lakeside carpark waiting for it to cool down enough to start
Poured over 2 1/2 gallon a water. Is starting to cough, so hopefully in half hour it will be cold enough to fire