P38 Ball joints replacements

Hi folks,
I have just had my Range Rover P38 fail its MOT on the rubber dust covers on the lower ball joint.
Now having bought the lower and thoght best to change the upper as well since it will be in bits have got as far as the disc being ready to come off, but can not get it to move, so I thought I would undo the four bolts at the back of the hub and just remove the whole hub and disc togther, but it doesn't move either and thats is with the big drive shaft nut also removed.

Having never had one of these in bits, I am looking for advice as to the hub should pull of now then I should get the drive shaft pulled out the axle to allow access to the ball joints properly.
Does any one have a right up on how to do it possibly?
This is the only car I dont have a book for yet.
Any advice would be appreciated. Bearing in mind I use to be a Mechanic years ago so taking to a garage would break my heart so not an option. lol

Unless the ball joint is actually excessivly worn, a cracked or even missing rubber boot is an advisory not a fail.

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as for the disk clean hub as best you can with wire brush with a club hammer (gentley) keep tapping all the way around to losen rust seal with a wooden, rubber mallet tap rear of disk 12 6 3 9 o clock continue until free with hub still connected .As for hub the cheats way not recomended is with hub nut loose tap nut with copper mallet or buy a hub puller these are chaep and worth there weight in gold

P38 not straight forward http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f10/p38-balljoint-removal-80710.html

As Fanatic says the ball joints are not at all straight forward. You are going to need some special tools not only to remove and replace the joints but also to align the hub aswell.

Big job to take on to pass an MOT. IF the joint is not actually worn and it has been failed wrongly for a split boot.

Thanks for the info guys, I will have a full read of the info tonight and tackle again on Sunday once all the WD 40 has soaked through over tomorrow.
In answer to Wammers comment, yeh it use to be an advisory until the turn of the year when the MOT standards were changed by V.O.S.A. now if the dust covers are burst or cracked it is a fail a now, which is really annoying that to get to the rubbers you have to do all this work.

ckc100 said:

Thanks for the info guys, I will have a full read of the info tonight and tackle again on Sunday once all the WD 40 has soaked through over tomorrow.
In answer to Wammers comment, yeh it use to be an advisory until the turn of the year when the MOT standards were changed by V.O.S.A. now if the dust covers are burst or cracked it is a fail a now, which is really annoying that to get to the rubbers you have to do all this work.

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WD 40 is not penetrating oil it is a water dispersant useless for penitrating rust. Not according to the MOT testers manual, it was not changed at all reference steering joint boots. Read this.

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual/contents.htm

Certain things changed and the relivent sections have the date of change on them, there was only one change to section 2 Steering system, that was a suspension type description.

ckc100 said:

Thanks for the info guys, I will have a full read of the info tonight and tackle again on Sunday once all the WD 40 has soaked through over tomorrow.
In answer to Wammers comment, yeh it use to be an advisory until the turn of the year when the MOT standards were changed by V.O.S.A. now if the dust covers are burst or cracked it is a fail a now, which is really annoying that to get to the rubbers you have to do all this work.

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This was given to me on here not long ago: (AA-site though)
VOSA, the government agency responsible for the MOT, has indicated that 'failures' relating to the new test items will be treated as 'advisories' in the first three months. This means that if you have any of the following problems with your car you've got until the first MOT renewal date after 1 April 2012 to get it fixed

MOT changes from 2012 | AA

Druim said:

This was given to me on here not long ago: (AA-site though)
VOSA, the government agency responsible for the MOT, has indicated that 'failures' relating to the new test items will be treated as 'advisories' in the first three months. This means that if you have any of the following problems with your car you've got until the first MOT renewal date after 1 April 2012 to get it fixed

MOT changes from 2012 | AA

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Lots of things were talked about before MOT was changed some things were not implimented. According to lastest MOT testers manual split steering joint boots are not a fail. Their status has not been changed. Unless someone has been very laxs and not updated it properly. Read MOT testers manual on previous post.

Well guys I bit the bullet and changed the ball joints today, as for nearly a 15 year old motor it only needing a few rubbers and tyre and set of wiper blades is not to bad.

Any way they were a right pig to get out but with a little heat and and leaving the new ones in the freezer all day they went in a bit easier. One of them was quite worn so nothing to bad lost having to do them cause of worn dust covers.

Took it out for a test drive and everything was cool until I thought I would make sure nothing untoward when the ABS light came on when I went full lock on a corner. It rest after turning the ignition on and off, but after another few miles the light came on and it wont go off now.
Now I know the book says the sensor should find its own position but the one on the side I stripped was ceased in place, so thought I would get away with it, but it looks like I havent.
Any ideas for a ceased one then?

Although you changed the ball joints, did you check that the swivel was central with the oil seal bore on the end of the axle tube ?? Adjustment for this is with the screwed collet on the lower arm of the swivel...failure to centralise will cause the halfshaft oil seal to wear out in no time.
The ABS sensors should be pushed in until they touch the reluctor ring on the CV joint. If the sensor has seized, soak it with penetrating oil such as Plus Gas, WD40 is useless as a penetrating fluid. Get a pair of vice grips and lock them on the head of the sensor (Not too tight) then twist the sensor gently to and fro, if it doesn't move, soak it further. If it moves pull upwards whilst twisting- DO NOT pull or strain the cable !!
Before refitting smear the body of the sensor with Silicone grease.

Buggr. Was told yesterday that my ball joints need replacing.

The garage also repeated the statement that bacause of new MOT rules, the torn boots will be a fail rather than an advisory.

Been quoted £170 a side. Does that sound reasonable? Sounds like it might be, going by this thread...

Or would it just be simpler to get yet another replacement axle?

I have contacted MOTUK and asked them about this. The MOT testers manual has since been updated.

wammers said:

I have contacted MOTUK and asked them about this. The MOT testers manual has since been updated.

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So it is now a fail?

Yes it is now a fail. Have a look at the manual on the VOSA website because from April there is going to be even more strigent things coming into the test.
For the steering dust covers 2.2.1.C and suspension dust covers is 2.4.2 of the manual which is in PDF available here MOT testing manuals and guides
I am lucky I use to be in the trade and as I specialised in Diesels years ago I helped him with a few things years ago and he knows not to rip me off as I know a lot of the the old tricks and if it is mechanical or basic electircal things or welding I will do it all myself where possible.
I feel sorry for the people who have to pay others to do the jobs as a lot of cars are not going to be worth fixing for the ordinary guy on the street anymore.

kooky_guy said:

So it is now a fail?

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Well it is open to debate at the moment. I cannot see that a very slight crack at time of test should be an instant fail. But some testers will be more pedantic than others. Some say that changes made on 1st Jan do not actually come into force until Ist April, so anything found should be an advisory and must be done before next test. But i have not seen that written in stone anywhere.

Irishrover said:

Although you changed the ball joints, did you check that the swivel was central with the oil seal bore on the end of the axle tube ?? Adjustment for this is with the screwed collet on the lower arm of the swivel...failure to centralise will cause the halfshaft oil seal to wear out in no time.
The ABS sensors should be pushed in until they touch the reluctor ring on the CV joint. If the sensor has seized, soak it with penetrating oil such as Plus Gas, WD40 is useless as a penetrating fluid. Get a pair of vice grips and lock them on the head of the sensor (Not too tight) then twist the sensor gently to and fro, if it doesn't move, soak it further. If it moves pull upwards whilst twisting- DO NOT pull or strain the cable !!
Before refitting smear the body of the sensor with Silicone grease.

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I did not have a special tool for this and seeing the state of the adjusting nut and unit at the bottom of the hub there was no way it was going to move, so I have taken my chances, as the car is my second car which over the past year I only did about 3000 miles any way.
As for the ABS sensor I got some grease in there and sprayed everything with GT85 which is good stuff for for freeing things, I never got it to move yet, but with some grease in the end it apears to be working now and has not came on again yet.
So once I get my new tyre this afternoon it will be back in for the test.
Was suprised at landrover price for a new sensor of £214 when a complete unit and bushes are only about £15 of the bay.
I will see how it goes.

Ball joints fitted yes good thats the easy part .Now if your hub is not allined oil seal
Will wear then contaminated your wheel bearing expensive and abs sensor will give you trouble