p38 4.6hse Non starter...any ideas why?

Hi guys,

This is my first post to the forum...so hi.

My new (to me) 97 Range Rover died on me today. It had been running fine, but when I returned to it in the garden centre car park...nothing.

Whats known:

• No messages on msg centre
• All the warning lights come on and the ones that usually go off, do go off. The ones that usually go off when the engine fires up stay on, including engine check.
• The gearstick is in P, but it registers on the dash when I move it to other positions
• When I turn the key, there is nothing...no movement at all from starter motor.
• I have checked fuse 2...fine.
• AA guy who towed me home put the fault reading gadget on ...said "high voltage fault". He said that meant Inhibitor switch or Crankshaft sensor.
• It locks and unlocks on key, so don't think key recode needed.

Any ideas anyone?

NO messages on message centre? Not even 2 bleeps and display "KEY IN LOCK"? Is it recognizing the key is inserted? Could it be a flat battery, bad contact in key battery?

Sorry...should be more clear... I get that message but nothing indicating a fault. Nothing suggesting a fault or security shutout etc. nothing when I turn the key. I assume the car battery is ok. While they do not put a cranking load on the batt, the eas and everything else electrical seems to function ok. The key fob battery was changed 5 days ago, and I put a dab of solder on the contacts. Its not that though...the car locks and unlocks remotely and the led on the fob lights as it should. I have just tried re-entering the EKA. no difference.

I have now been told that The engine ECU security code may be the issue. Does anyone have a syncmate or other similar gadget near Corby in Northants?

I know this doesn't help you at the moment but I'm having exactly the same problem, Keep in touch and let me know if you have any luck!

if you can get a fault reader on it then there is usually two fault codes that come up,

something like p1662 or/and p1994 can't remember the exact numbers. they are posted on the forum

these indicate a resync is needed.

if you have the eka you could enter it anyway, it wont do any harm!

p1667 p1672 are the codes you look for. i think you will need a relearn on your becm, with them both being gems..

A 97 petrol is a GEMS engine and as the UK guru Rick the Pick reminded me some time ago, the BBS Synchmate does not cover this engine...only the later "THOR" and diesels.

Thanks guys....Irish Rover, or anyone else, Do you know what gadget I need for a 97 petrol or is it a mandatory trip to the extorsionists at my local LR garage?? Also, is there a way around it just to get it started. I read somewhere that if you directly fire the starter from the batt using jump leads or similar that would do it. Will the Becm/ecu issue stop the ignition from working or cause other issues?

lady with car troubles :o) xx said:

I know this doesn't help you at the moment but I'm having exactly the same problem, Keep in touch and let me know if you have any luck!

Click to expand...

Hi Lady,
(sounds bad mannered, not meant that way)

I have only just bought the car, and it was running very sweetly for a couple of weeks, except for a cruise control issue (fixed in 30 secs thanks to this forum). If you get any joy let me know....I've been reading your posts with interest too....
Ady

you will have no spark and no fuel, i can not see putting a lead from your starter working. it will need to be pluged in and reset..

Applying power to the starter relay or solenoid will only turn the starter motor. If the engine ecu is not activated, you will not get a spark at the plugs or fuel to the injectors.
Take it from me..there are no quick and easy ways to override the security system on P38's as many on here will confirm.
:behindsofa:

I MAY repeat MAY have found the problem. I thought i had checked the correct fuse. I read fuse 2 when that should have been MAXI fuse 2 (the bigger one). Its gone. Worse than that, it had been bridged with some very thin wire by a cowboy previous owner or their mechanic. This has burnt through, leaving a melted messy blob between the contacts on the fuse box. I'll get a new one from Halfrauds and update....

Before you go off to Halfords, use another unnecessary fuse to prove it ..might save a wasted journey ..

Those maxi fuses (Most of them) feed the becm...you may be on a winner. Next question is, why did a maxi fuse pop it's clogs in the first place?????????????
:behindsofa:

OK...latest....thanks for all your help so far guys. Tell me if my diagnosis is off the mark here.

Changed the fuse and turned key....a fair bit of smoke coming from beneath engine bay. I get down below car and starter motor connections all looking ok, but starter motor casing very hot. I'm guessing the starter motor is buggered. That explains the blown fuse, and why the previous owner was sick of it blowing fuses so bridged it and put the car up for sale knowing that starter was on its way out. But, is this normal? I've had starters fail on me before (non RR) but usually with a bit of warning ie trouble starting for a few days before it dies or other odd noises from starter. This was perfect right up until last time it started.
Next thing is...anyone changed a p38 starter before?

Replacement starter around £60 from Island 4x4.
Starter removal can be a pain in the ass. It's held on by two socket head screws, one at the bottom, one at the top. You will need a 6mm allen key socket bit, 1/2" sq. drive and a selection of extensions.
The bottom bolt is a piece of cake but the top one is a right pain. Undo the top one first, locate the allen key into the head of the bolt with your fingers and carfully add the socket extensions until you have enough length to be able to rotate the ratchet to undo it, you will find that after the initial "Crack" the ratchet can be removed and the bolt undone by hand leaving the extensions attached. Then remove the bottom bolt. To refit, fit the bottom bolt loosely and fit the bolt to the socket and feed it into the upper hole and turn the extensions by hand until it's nipped, then finish tightening with the ratchet. Now tighten the lower bolt.
:behindsofa:

Thanks Irish Rover...that helps, I'll let you know how I get on. It looks like a pain in the ass job. that top bolt will be a bitch to get to.

Am I right with the info above in thinking its the starter? seems a bit strange that it wasn't playing up immediately before? Im guessing they stick but holding the key long enough unsticks them unless either a fuse blows or the motor gives out.

If the motor is getting hot and smoking it could be the insulation on the windings breaking down or the solenoid coil cooked. Starter motors don't usually get hot enough to smoke, but not unknown.
Best option for the cost is to replace the starter motor, at that price it's better than getting your own repaired or buying an "Unknown history" second hand one.

Thanks for the advice.

I have got my new starter on order £59 inc vat. Will have a go at fitting it next weekend, if its arrived by then. in the meantime I'll get to work on the audio as it does not have a radio.
If you have any tips I'll gladly take any audio advice people have. I have just built the attenuator circuit I saw on Rangerovers.net, but as yet have no head unit to fit to it.